2gb facts ???

[jasonu]

1 router super hub 5 ?

2. ethernet in pc 100/1000 1gb card or need the 100/1000/10000 card . 10 gb card 

3. when it comes looking and cant work out 1gb to 2gb in package goes up £30 a month but £6 extra confused ...

thanks

note not on my postcode yet .. 

[asim18]

VM don't provide DIA (dedicated internet access). If you try to max out a non dedicated line 24/7 you'll be hit with a FUP very quickly as their peering arrangements at IXPs have nowhere near enough bandwidth to sustain all customers maxing out their connections.

VM only has 200Gb of public peering at LINX London and 100Gb of public peering at LINX Manchester.

It's a real shame how everything is about bandwidth and not speed. I wish domestic ISPs would focus more on speeds and peering and not focus on bandwidth to netflix and select peers.

I wish I could have a sub 3ms speed to the nearest DC with excellent peering arrangements with the real internet.

Unfortunately most domestic users just want useless multi-gigabits to netflix, no speed and no good peering arrangements with the actual internet.

At work we have a 1ms speed DIA connection to most London DCs, with only 200Mb bandwidth. Its about 20 times faster than 1Gb Virgin Connection. Browsing the net is an absolute pleasure on a 1ms line.

[Roger_Gooner]

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@jasonu wrote:

1 router super hub 5 ?

2. ethernet in pc 100/1000 1gb card or need the 100/1000/10000 card . 10 gb card 

3. when it comes looking and cant work out 1gb to 2gb in package goes up £30 a month but £6 extra confused ...

thanks

note not on my postcode yet .. 

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This Gig2 is currently only available on nexfibre's network, but I'm sure it will spread to VM's network depending on the rollout of XGS-PON.

The hub 5X is used and you'll need a PC with a 2.5GbE NIC to utilise this speed. You can get PCs with a 10GbE NIC but only you can justify the higher cost.

[IPFreely]

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@Roger_Gooner wrote:

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This Gig2 is currently only available on nexfibre's network, but I'm sure it will spread to VM's network depending on the rollout of XGS-PON.

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Nothing to do with XGSPON at all, Gig2 will be available on HFC.

[carl_pearce]

Yes, Steam will saturate a 2 Gbps connection, however, the PC being used will need to be high spec to decompress at those speeds!

Cue people complaining about 'slow speeds' when it's a device limitation!

[IPFreely]

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@asim18 wrote:

VM don't provide DIA (dedicated internet access). If you try to max out a non dedicated line 24/7 you'll be hit with a FUP very quickly as their peering arrangements at IXPs have nowhere near enough bandwidth to sustain all customers maxing out their connections.

VM only has 200Gb of public peering at LINX London and 100Gb of public peering at LINX Manchester.

It's a real shame how everything is about bandwidth and not speed. I wish domestic ISPs would focus more on speeds and peering and not focus on bandwidth to netflix and select peers.

I wish I could have a sub 3ms speed to the nearest DC with excellent peering arrangements with the real internet.

Unfortunately most domestic users just want useless multi-gigabits to netflix, no speed and no good peering arrangements with the actual internet.

At work we have a 1ms speed DIA connection to most London DCs, with only 200Mb bandwidth. Its about 20 times faster than 1Gb Virgin Connection. Browsing the net is an absolute pleasure on a 1ms line.

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VMO2 have either on-net caches or private peering to most of the content people are connecting to.

VMO2's public peering is relatively low largely because they've tons of private peering and because they are owned by, and their network is largely behind, Liberty Global. Liberty Global's network is tier 1.

Any FUP VMO2 might apply is nothing at all to do with the peering and transit, it's down to local network capacity which is far more of an issue for them than peering and transit. Peering and transit load can be balanced, a customer only connects to one bit of kit at VM and load can't be balanced without significant work.

I can't have 'a sub 3ms speed to the nearest DC' because I'm not in London. As far as 'excellent peering arrangements with the real Internet' go most DCs in the country don't connect to the 'real Internet' directly, it's a hub and spoke as a mesh would require crazy amounts of fibre and cost too much.

[IPFreely]

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@carl_pearce wrote:

Yes, Steam will saturate a 2 Gbps connection, however, the PC being used will need to be high spec to decompress at those speeds!

Cue people complaining about 'slow speeds' when it's a device limitation!

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Yup. Happens whenever speeds go up. As do posts on forums about how no-one needs those speeds, people are wasting their money, etc, yet here we are.

[asim18]

Yeah I forgot to mention poor routing too.

Using a real tier1 network looking glass, hurricane electric, I get 6ms from telehouse london to my server hosted in manchester and interconnects directly with AS20860.

Using liberty global's aorta.net looking glass from telehouse london to the same webserver it's 22ms and uses cogent's backbone. Not actually tier 1 network in my opinion, if it cant even get from London to Manchester using its own network.

Now the funny thing is... using cogents own looking glass, I get 5.2ms from their London POP to the same server. Suggesting a very cheap private peering arrangement with cogent.

So libert globals "tier1" network is 4 times slower than the competition's networks.

VM is fine if you're doing netflix and playing games all day. But if you're working from home all day, using realtime protocols such as VoIP, RDP etc. requiring good international (and national) routing, it's a crap connection.

[IPFreely]

I'm not sure you understand how private peering works. In fact I know you don't. It's cables back to back between the two networks. There's no 'cheap' arrangement there and Cogent have had a few 'issues' recently.

Regarding Aorta being tier 1 https://bgp.he.net/AS6830#_peers is a who's who: Aorta is tier 1: no-one connects to the networks they do without some serious weight. I'm not a fan of 5089 being put largely behind 6830 but that's how it is. 

Not sure why VM don't connect to your ISP directly: lots do - https://bgp.he.net/AS5089#_whois 

Who cares about good international routing anyway? Once you get past 3 ms to the real Internet it all breaks down. Not sure how I'm managing with 6 to Manchester and 10 to London but I'm doing my best

Actually, I do know. You have 4 ms of jitter on your home cable. I have zero, I'm on uncapped XGSPON. It's the jitter that's killing you, not a few ms of delay. Pages are blistering for me thanks to good DNS and low jitter. 10 or 20 ms of latency means nothing for browsing as long as it's smooth: our requests aren't all in the same DC our connections meet the wider Internet.

EDIT: Actually while I'm at it let's discuss this, quoting your good self, emphasis mine: 'VM is fine if you're doing netflix and playing games all day. But if you're working from home all day, using realtime protocols such as VoIP, RDP etc. requiring good international (and national) routing, it's a crap connection.'

So: gaming is far more demanding than either VoIP or RDP. VoIP and video calls have buffers, often 50+ ms, gaming doesn't. Gamers are far less tolerant off issues for this reason. RDP I'll take as remote terminal type applications: these are fine over VM. The additional delay means not a lot: Teams screen sharing, Zoom sharing, etc, 10 or 20 ms of delay doesn't mean much, we aren't talking video games with 120 ticks a second, we're talking scenarios where 150 ms latency is tolerated.

If you're using RDP over WAN and not using a work VPN to get there, RDP is open to the Internet, delete your account. If you're using VPN how much latency is the VPN concentrator adding? 

[asim18]

Thanks for that information.

VM's residential fibre service is definitely the same as work's dedicated internet access. And 20ms ping is certainly the same as 1ms. And VM has the best peering and routing in the world.

[IPFreely]

'Using liberty global's aorta.net looking glass from telehouse london to the same webserver it's 22ms and uses cogent's backbone. Not actually tier 1 network in my opinion, if it cant even get from London to Manchester using its own network.'

Yeah this kinda seals the deal.

For some reason there's a high latency before the first hop in the Aorta trace, however given that weird delay response is fine.

You didn't read the traceroute did you? Check delay between hops 1 and 3. Best guess something in the software is adding some latency at the start but went from Aorta to Cogent very quickly. 

traceroute to 188.227.169.1 (188.227.169.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1  uk-lon01c-ri2-gr-0-0-0-6831.aorta.net (84.116.147.165)  17.753 ms  17.719 ms  17.749 ms
2  * * *
3  be2350.ccr42.lon13.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.51.137)  17.101 ms be2348.ccr41.lon13.atlas.cogentco.com (130.117.51.73)  17.190 ms  17.082 ms
4  be2871.ccr21.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.58.186)  17.046 ms  17.064 ms be2868.ccr21.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.57.154)  17.244 ms
5  149.11.143.66 (149.11.143.66)  17.122 ms  17.034 ms  17.059 ms
6  be500.ncs5500-1.dc5.as20860.net (130.180.202.81)  18.354 ms  18.524 ms  18.266 ms
7  n5500-2.be202.lea202.north.dc5.as20860.net (130.180.203.147)  18.813 ms n5500-2.be301.lea301.1ue.dc5.as20860.net (130.180.203.151)  18.199 ms n5500-1.be302.lea302.1ue.dc5.as20860.net (130.180.203.153)  18.606 ms
8  * * *
9  95.154.221.1 (95.154.221.1)  18.278 ms !X  18.520 

Aorta receive the route from Cogent at London. Why would they carry the data to Manchester themselves when they've had a route advertised to them across peering and don't appear to have a better route?

You might be able to use a looking glass but looks an awful lot like you've no idea why what you're seeing works that way and, rather than find out, assume things are broken or one side has cheapened out.

The world doesn't share your view that 3 ms to a datacentre then immediate access to the entire Internet is necessary. ISPs that directly connect don't do so everywhere they've presence. In the UK London, Manchester, and Pulsant are all you need, and many will only connect, albeit redundantly, in one of those because the UK is so small and peering and transit so concentrated no-one is bothered.