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michaelCB
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Cables installed without owners permission

Despite being told not to, Virgin Installers came back to my property the next day and looped cables across my property to give service to the adjacent property. 

I want these cables re-routed away from the property. What was a simple installation of one cable and box, now feeds four properties. Virgin do not have permission to do this, who should I contact to get these cambes removed?

No wayleave was granted or sought.

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goslow
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Message 2 of 48
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Re: Cables installed without owners permission

Are you a VM customer yourself or have been in the past?

Whose property or land does the box and its feed-in cable (which now serves multiple propreties) lie on?

The VM forum team will respond on here shortly. It can be up to a week but is usually quicker than that.

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Z92
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Message 3 of 48
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Re: Cables installed without owners permission

If you gave permission for one cable, they have the permission to install additional cables as that permission is typically "do whatever you want" after that.

They will eventually try and route additional cables direct, eventually...maybe. Depending on the property type.

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michaelCB
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Re: Cables installed without owners permission

Thanks Z92

Virgin have never been given permission to install the box or the cables. I stood next to the installer and told him not to install the cables, and Virgin returned the very next day and did it anyway,

Shall I de install them myself? 

The box is feeding 4 properties, how many more ! Its quite simple from my perspective. It has been done without my consent. Virgin please come and re-route the cables for the other properties away from my property

 

they have the permission to install additional cables as that permission

Cannot agree with this comment! When is enough, enough. If I give permission for one cable there is no agreement for more

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michaelCB
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Re: Cables installed without owners permission

Hi, Goslow, thanks for your interest

My property has been connected to Virgin in the past by a Tenant who was not given permission either, to install cables. So any agreement that Virgin thinks it has historically, is not with me the owner but unauthorised, and there is no implied permission for further cables either. 

The Tenant has no right to grant permission for holes in the wall, cable installation, junction box installation, from me the property owner. 

The box in on my property, and 4 cables now radiate to adjacent properties. My neighbour hasn't seen it yet, but the Installer also nailed a cable to his house too, measuring 15metres

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goslow
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Re: Cables installed without owners permission

Here's my take on it (which is nothing more than a non-expert, personal opinion, so could well be quite incorrect!). Make of it what you will. I reserve the right to be wrong!

When a residential customer signs up for a VM service, they allow VM to install the cable on their property and grant access right to inspect/maintain/service the equipment while the homeowner is a customer. There seems to be a separate process where VM want to access land in order to take their services into a new geographical area or for serving flats etc. in a shared building

https://www.virginmedia.com/lightning/network-expansion/wayleave

There is a download document above which infers that kind of agreement is perpetual (which makes sense to allow VM to maintain/service any buildings/tenants who want to be customers, which may change over time)

My take on the normal residential agreement is that it is in place for as long as the customer remains with VM. I haven't seen anything in there which infers it is a perpetual agreement. It actually mentions the agreement lasts a minimum of 12 months after which it ends.

https://www.virginmedia.com/shop/the-legal-stuff/terms-and-conditions-for-fibre-optic-services

'Section Q. Visiting your home' is probably the most relevant bit

So, in your case, you are the freeholder and the tenant (who originally signed up) had no right to grant permission for the installation (presumably under whatever tenancy agreement you had in place). Since the tenant's agreement with VM has now ended, I can't see that VM has any subsequent right to access your property and certainly not lay additional cables across your property to serve other users.

The matter of the supply cable itself and the outside box may possibly be different as there may be telecoms legislation in place which covers that particular hardware. Section Q above does mention that VM won't remove cables at the end of an agreement. I certainly would not recommend interfering with it yourself (not least because your neighbours are using it) but working with VM to try to resolve the issue.

The quality of VM cable installations is often not great, with green plastic conduit trailing over gardens being quite common. If a subsequent property owner is not a VM customer, why would they want to see that in their garden? Unfortunately, VM does not really seem to have any clear processes and methods to decommission services when they are not in use any more and someone else does not want the VM installation in place.

Wait until the VM forum team get here. Hopefully they will arrange an on-site inspection for you to deal with the issue.

nodrogd
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Message 7 of 48
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Re: Cables installed without owners permission

Without any photos its difficult to make a judgement as to what the OP is talking about. Is this box an omni-box or a cabinet? What exactly is it crossing?

Virgin BB TV Landline. Freeview/Freesat HD, Virgin Mobile, Tesco Mobile. Cable customer since 1993

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goslow
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Message 8 of 48
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Re: Cables installed without owners permission

Agreed. My read of it was the tenant had an omnibox and cable installed which has subsequently been used to connect up other properties. The tenant certainly would have been taking liberties if they had agreed to have anything installed beyond that!

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michaelCB
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Re: Cables installed without owners permission

My thanks to Goslow for your educated and view, a common sense approach, and what seems lawful I too believe your answer to be correct in law. If the agreement was to be in-perpetuity it has to be written into the property deeds and be in the freehold documents for the house, to pass down to future owners in law, a variation of a wayleave.

This has not happened, and I see the nest of cables expanding. 

So to hopefully bring this issue and thread to a close, without prejudice, if Virgin were to leave the network feed to my house,and the little grey box in place, and remove all other cables feeding other properties it would certainly help. 

if the rerouting at the same time removed the need for the 20 m of cable nailed to my neighbours house it would solve two issues in one, I just hope they dont cause further damage to the properties in removing cables, and make good the damage existing to the brickwork

So to VM, I'm trying to solve your problems, and certainly don't add further cables to my property.

I wont go into the sneaky way VM did this, having been told not to nail cables to other properties or fences , to then leave site and return the next day and do it without even asking to enter my property is disrespectful

I will wait for the VM forum team to pick up this thread as you suggest.

Thanks for your view

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michaelCB
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Re: Cables installed without owners permission

Hi Nodrogd thanks for your interest and  comment.

The box VM left is grey 8 inch by 5 inch wall mounted distribution box with cables strung along fences and neighbours house. 

The cables are for BB, and cross my property on a fence line to the grey box, (is this an omnibox?) Cables then head off to my neighbours property by crossing under the entrance pathway to my house, yes they chipped away the path and buried a cable in the path! One of the cables is actually nailed to my neighbours house wall, a black cable on a brick coloured house!

It would be easy to get cross but I'm offering VM a solution to fix it, its usually much quicker. However we watch this space, I will keep the thread updated.

Thanks to you for your perspective. We wait to allow VM to get their act together. I do hope VM respond in this forum to give everyone a chance to see how they are going to resolve the issue

Thanks 

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