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j0s800
On our wavelength
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Message 1 of 9
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Fed up of Virgin Media's latency problems

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/view/80ffbf3e4ac5877b6cf7a0a8a2b12fe7071...

Gamig was working fine for me for a good number of weeks and I was actually quite happy but all of a sudden I have run into severe problems and whenever these problems start up they end up. There was a friendly engineer that came over after I called up support with these issues as there was reported packet loss, fair enough, they even noticed that our connectors had gotten damp outside and had replaced them because of all the bad weather we've been happening. I was impressed that the staff are at least making sure their visits are recorded now rather than just plugging something in and then walking away after.

Everything was working amazingly for about an hour or two and then it just got worse and worse to the point now that I'm getting ping of 500+ just on Counter Strike Global Offensive, my ping and username is in the red highlighted box.

https://imgur.com/Aq2mI7d

https://imgur.com/7E0jxy6

I keep getting dicked around like so many other gamers like this and it is extremely frustrating. Why do none of you at Virgin Media actually look into what's causing these latency issues? Because it is very obviously an extremely common problem and nothing to do with peoples' computers or the games they're playing no matter how much you try to pretend.

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Andruser
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Message 2 of 9
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Re: Fed up of Virgin Media's latency problems

"Why do none of you at Virgin Media actually look into what's causing these latency issues?"

I suspect they avoid the issue of latency because they know full well that the Hub 3 is junk, and they can't properly resolve the issue.  So they avoid the issue.  Now, at 500ms, your latency problems probably have only a minimal component of Hub 3 if you've even got one, but VM don't want to start trying to promise low latency, because they don't want to deliver that (as it brings them back round to all those millions of crappy Hub 3s).

Much of VM's UK networks were originally built by different companies to different standards, almost none of them setting out to deliver a low latency network.  VM have since compounded the problem in some areas by selling more connections than local equipment can support, creating both bandwidth and latency issues, and then the fools of Liberty Global (VM's US parent company) issued the Hub 3, unintentionally creating a very effective three layer attack on low latency.  

And the other reason not much is done, is that like all US corporations, Liberty Global are US-centric, run by cash obsessed dullards who are expert only in using Powerpoint, with a short term, asset-stripping mentality.  As a result, Virginmedia have had to cut onshore staffing to the bone and beyond, so there simply aren't sufficient expert technical staff to look at and resolve complicated problems.  All that counts is signing up new customers, taking their money and hiking prices to please Wall Street investors.  Providing them with a service, well, that doesn't seem to matter much.

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j0s800
On our wavelength
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Message 3 of 9
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Re: Fed up of Virgin Media's latency problems

I've been reading that massive thread about the Superhub 3 and it's interesting, it also explains a hell of a lot, I don't understand why, considering the state of ISP competition in this country people haven't organised a class action lawsuit against them I think that's probably going to be the only way to get them to do something to fix all of this.

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Andruser
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Message 4 of 9
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Re: Fed up of Virgin Media's latency problems

Two reasons there's no class action in this country:

1)  In the US, the claimants aren't liable for the costs of the defendant, even if they lose, whereas the claim will include costs and a generous bonus for the law firm, so real no win, no fee class actions are common.  This means some law firms are very keen to take them on.  In the UK, sue Virginmedia and lose, and not only do you have your own legal costs to pay, you'd have to pay THEIR top dollar London lawyer costs as well.  Limits on the fees payable to law firms mean that the amount that a UK law firm would earn can be challenged, so the upside for the law firm of a no-win no fee case is limited, and they want a higher chance of success.  Moreover, before starting any legal action, a UK lawyer you or I might commission is compelled by regulation to check that we have the means to pay the potential costs of the action.  Not many people will sign up for an attempt to sue VM, knowing that if they lose, they pay two sets of lawyers fees.

2) The action would also have to prove that VM are not providing a contracted service, or mis-sold the service.  If you look at the T&Cs, Verminmedia promise NOTHING.  Customers sign up with Virginmedia on (misplaced) trust, so proving that VM are breaching that one-sided contract that specifically DOESN'T promise any level of performance is going to be difficult.  Other potential angles of attack would be that Virginmedia had mis-sold their service, or that the service was not fit for its intended purpose.  Given that even the industry regulator Ofcom doesn't seem to understand or care about latency, proving either claim would be difficult.  I suspect if you're signed up to a Vivid Gaming package, you're on stronger ground that the service is unfit for the purpose for which it was sold, but even then your lawyer has to educate a court room about latency, the problems with the Puma 6, the relationship between VM, Arris and Intel, the influence of wider system problems - and then you'd be relying on the court to agree that "Ultrafast broadband for gaming" means that the service should be fit for online action gaming.  It's certainly suitable for turn-based strategy games, on-line chess, Minecraft, or gamers who simply download games for local content.  So if the judge takes the view that "broadband for gaming" does not mean broadband for all types of gaming including latency sensitive on-line action games", we lose.

The problem here lies with the clueless, soft regulator.  Ofcom should get off their fat grey bottoms, and start demanding that telecoms services are delivered to a high standard, and fit for the reasonable expectations of customers.  Instead, they've failed to sort out mobile coverage, they've taken forever to act on actual broadband speeds versus contract or marketing claims, they haven't pushed Openreach hard enough on fast broadband, and they've failed the obvious action of unbundling the cable market.  If Ofcom did that unbundling, everybody would be able to offer services over VM's cable, and we wouldn't have to buy the service from Virginmedia.  It would mean Openreach could (for the most part) concentrate on broadband services in non-cabled areas, there'd be far less duplication of assets, and VM would have far more people paying to use their lines - and have to provide a similar sort of service guarantee as Openreach.  It would be easier in a regulated cable market to invest in capacity increases for the cable network.  Virginmedia would be horrified by this, and come up with a zillion and one reasons why it can't work - and to a large extent that's why they've tended to side with BT in discussions about future telecoms policy.  But it could work, in just the same way that Openreach LLU operates.

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j0s800
On our wavelength
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Message 5 of 9
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Re: Fed up of Virgin Media's latency problems

Ping is at it again, at least I know what it is now, but I really think we should be raising hell about this, especially for those of us who are stuck with virgin media and don't really have any options.

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SpenceJS
Tuning in
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Message 6 of 9
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Re: Fed up of Virgin Media's latency problems

Having the same issues and rather fed up.  Will probably look at other providers if they persist much longer.

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Andruser
Superfast
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Message 7 of 9
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Re: Fed up of Virgin Media's latency problems

"Will probably look at other providers if they persist much longer."

A couple of thoughts.  The Hub 3 might (just might) get the fabled firmware fix, and behave adequately, could be mere weeks away, months or never.  Would you be willing to wait for that?   300 Mbps and low latency might be a lot more attractive than 80 Mbps and low latency via Openreach?  The Hub 3 issue is only one of a number of reasons for poor latency - other network reasons might be resolvable quicker if you complain.

If you're leaving VM, be sure that alternative providers can deliver the speed they promise (and the low latency you want).  Maybe start your new Openreach ISP contract before terminating Virginmedia - for the £40 wasted by having two connections for a month, you'll at least be able to compare and contrast.  But make sure you know that you can cancel the new contract if it isn't up to your requirements - few ISPs will promise any latency figures, and there might be a limited "grace" period or even no period in which you can cancel for any reason.

The best thing would be to contact a good smaller ISP and discuss your needs beforehand.  They will not be as cheap as the discount offers from Sky or BT, but people like Zen and Andrews & Arnold know what they are talking about technically, and have excellent reputations for customer service, and there's other small providers worth looking at like Aquiss and Merula.  If you join a big lard-bottomed corporate like BT or Sky, then the customer service, technical support will be the same sort of experience as we all have with Verminmedia.

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j0s800
On our wavelength
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Message 8 of 9
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Re: Fed up of Virgin Media's latency problems

I should point out that I am on a 50Mbps connection, not a gamer package but equally that should be more than adequate for gaming and when it worked it always was, this is purely an issue to do with virgin and we need to call them out on their god awful latency issues Just loaded up CS:GO again and it's around peak times nearly, lots of players on, so why is it that all of a sudden I'm getting ping of less than 40? That's absolutely amazing for me, the connection just seems to decide to randomly work when it feels like it.

Or are virgin media going to be making me paranoid by doing dodgy stealth fixes and not acknowledge what's been going on with all our connections at all. By the way Anderuser you keep saying you recommend these smaller ISPS but most of them don't offer up unlimited packages, this is going to be useless for heavy internet users like me that like to game a lot and so on, yes there probably would be less ping problems, but I don't like the idea of my internet shutting off because I decided to play games all day on a weekend.

It's not even necessarily about gaming, I'm a games developer, so what happens to me if I want to test multiplayer one day? I'm screwed by this connection, hopefully I'll be able to switch providers and so on by them to something more stable but it's all just ridiculous.

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j0s800
On our wavelength
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Message 9 of 9
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Re: Fed up of Virgin Media's latency problems

I encourage people to always post screenshot evidence of these ping issues, not just the BQM's I will keep posting this up until it's fixed. I recently had very good ping for a couple of days and then all of a sudden today it decided the ping just decided to skyrocket so it seems to be entirely at random the connection decides to work.

We are paying for a service here and Virgin should fix it and honour their contract, I'm not asking for anything unreasonable and I'm sick of virgin media ignoring this issue.

https://imgur.com/5jRxhIJ

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