BQM Check for Gig1 please

[LexLuther]

Hi all

Had my M600 upgraded to Gig1 few days ago, and got a SH5

SH4 never had a attenuator fitted so was a easy swap.

I set up BQM and see lots of high latency spikes (yellow), is this normal?

Today: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/b8dc9964ab4a5eb9776f73714f12b19863...

Live: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/9a0fde01618918325440ac6fd4cb281788...

SH5 Stats:

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID

1	330000000	4.1	40	QAM 256	25
2	210000000	4.6	41	QAM 256	10
3	218000000	4.5	41	QAM 256	11
4	226000000	4.6	41	QAM 256	12
5	234000000	4.9	41	QAM 256	13
6	242000000	5	41	QAM 256	14
7	250000000	5	41	QAM 256	15
8	258000000	4.9	41	QAM 256	16
9	266000000	4.8	41	QAM 256	17
10	274000000	4.6	40	QAM 256	18
11	282000000	4.6	40	QAM 256	19
12	290000000	4.5	40	QAM 256	20
13	298000000	4.7	40	QAM 256	21
14	306000000	4.8	40	QAM 256	22
15	314000000	4.7	40	QAM 256	23
16	322000000	4.4	40	QAM 256	24
17	338000000	3.9	40	QAM 256	26
18	346000000	4	40	QAM 256	27
19	354000000	4	40	QAM 256	28
20	362000000	4.2	40	QAM 256	29
21	370000000	4.1	40	QAM 256	30
22	378000000	4	40	QAM 256	31
23	386000000	3.5	39	QAM 256	32
24	394000000	3.1	39	QAM 256	33
25	402000000	2.6	39	QAM 256	34
26	410000000	2.6	39	QAM 256	35
27	418000000	2.7	39	QAM 256	36
28	426000000	2.9	39	QAM 256	37
29	434000000	3	39	QAM 256	38
30	442000000	2.9	39	QAM 256	39
31	450000000	2.7	39	QAM 256	40

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors

1	Locked	40	5	0
2	Locked	41	2	0
3	Locked	41	9	0
4	Locked	41	7	0
5	Locked	41	5	0
6	Locked	41	8	0
7	Locked	41	6	0
8	Locked	41	3	0
9	Locked	41	5	0
10	Locked	40	14	0
11	Locked	40	5	0
12	Locked	40	8	0
13	Locked	40	9	0
14	Locked	40	12	0
15	Locked	40	6	0
16	Locked	40	10	0
17	Locked	40	8	0
18	Locked	40	3	0
19	Locked	40	8	0
20	Locked	40	7	0
21	Locked	40	10	0
22	Locked	40	7	0
23	Locked	39	11	0
24	Locked	39	8	0
25	Locked	39	8	0
26	Locked	39	7	0
27	Locked	39	9	0
28	Locked	39	11	0
29	Locked	39	11	0
30	Locked	39	10	0
31	Locked	39	9	0

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID

0	49600000	45.3	5120	QAM 64	1
1	43100000	45.3	5120	QAM 64	2
2	36600000	44.8	5120	QAM 64	3
3	30100000	44.3	5120	QAM 64	4
4	23600000	43.8	5120	QAM 64	5

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts

0	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
1	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
2	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
3	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
4	ATDMA	0	0	0	0

Does everything look ok?

Thanks

[carl_pearce]

Power levels look fine.

Some packet loss on the BQM, however that could be normal depending if you are saturating your download/upload.

[Andrew-G]

I'm unconvinced, Mr Pearce.  There's packet loss visible across the day and through the night and for that length of time the OP would struggle to saturate the 50 Mbps upstream, plus the nasty latency profile matches exactly what you'd expect on an over-subscribed segment of VM's network.  It's possible that there's two problems - one causing the packet loss, and the other being the capacity constraint that's causing the latency issues.

From years of experience looking at these, I'd suspect at the level of over-subscription the BQM shows, VM will deny on their grandmother's life that there is any problem of capacity or utilisation.  And if that's the case and they're not prepared to admit the BQM shows a problem, then the problem will never be fixed.  If they do admit there's a problem of over-utilisation, then the years of experience tell me the promised fix date has been plucked from somebody's fundament and means nothing.

As for LexLuther, I'm afraid if I'm right (and I'm not always*), then you will have to live with that sort of performance unless you (a) have a better ISP alternative, and (b) are willing to play a game of hardball with VM to be released from contract without penalty.

* Just 99% of the time.

[legacy1]

I'm sure when BQM first showed packet loss and latency VM blamed it on are routers so they made the hubs and it was no better.

At 10pm – 11pm its utilisation or you doing a download or upload VM I'm sure VM could do a temp fix with Ethernet after docsis or they just have to put in more capacity.

As for packet loss thats likely a sign that your connection has noise.

[IPFreely]

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@legacy1 wrote:

At 10pm – 11pm its utilisation or you doing a download or upload VM I'm sure VM could do a temp fix with Ethernet after docsis or they just have to put in more capacity.

---

Please elaborate. I have no idea what 'Ethernet after DoCSIS' means. DoCSIS carries Ethernet anyway. 

[legacy1]

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@IPFreely wrote:

---

@legacy1 wrote:

At 10pm – 11pm its utilisation or you doing a download or upload VM I'm sure VM could do a temp fix with Ethernet after docsis or they just have to put in more capacity.

---

Please elaborate. I have no idea what 'Ethernet after DoCSIS' means. DoCSIS carries Ethernet anyway. 

---

Well clearly Docsis on the upstream can't QoS/BWM that well that carries Ethernet so after that if a bridge router can limit the upstream from after Docsis but might only work if the Docsis can output to a bridge router per channel.

[Andrew-G]

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@IPFreely wrote:

---

@legacy1 wrote:

At 10pm – 11pm its utilisation or you doing a download or upload VM I'm sure VM could do a temp fix with Ethernet after docsis or they just have to put in more capacity.

---

Please elaborate. I have no idea what 'Ethernet after DoCSIS' means. DoCSIS carries Ethernet anyway. 

---

Don't worry about it.  That's a load of hypotheticals, VM don't do that, it might not work anyway, and they aren't going to do it ever because there's a long term network technical strategy to implement a modern fibre optic solution.  That WILL solve your problem if it is over-utilisation, but not in the next few years.

Unless there's some pre-planned work to increase capacity or fix a known load problem around you, then nothing will change for the forseeable future.  VM have done a lot of work to improve network capacity, but since they won't admit where capacity problems are and when (if at all) they will be fixed you'll get nothing useful out of the company.   You could read the entirety of this thread, but what it boils down to is that you tolerate this in the very optimistic hope of a fix, or you find another ISP.

[Kain_W]

Hi LexLuther,

Thanks for your post and welcome back to the community.

Apologies for the issues you are experiencing, may I ask regarding the latency has this been an issue in the past too?

Let us know,

[LexLuther]

Hi. Yes it’s always been like this. I thought moving to Gig1 and SH5 would fix it. 

I had a sh4 before on m600 broadband. 

What can I do to resolve ?

[Andrew-G]

What can I do to resolve ?

There is nothing within your control that will fix an over-utilisation fault.  I believe your BQM shows a typical over-utilisation pattern - on the sample you posted, you see how it's very poor during normal waking hours, worst at peak traffic hours and then peachy from about half past midnight to 9 am? Shows that the network and your hub are working perfectly when there isn't too much traffic across the VM network in your area. Nothing you can do to improve matters, as the cause is congestion at the big box called a CMTS that sits at the head end of the local network.  That congestion is caused by VM selling more contracts than the network has reliable capacity for, as a result data packets get queued at the CMTS, causing latency spikes.  In some areas VM undertake work to rejig the local networks to balance loads and eliminate over-utilisation. But sometimes that's either not possible, or judged uneconomic if there's a need to spend money on more equipment. 

Compared to many I've seen, your BQM is the worst, and I'd expect VM to insist that the network is fine and fault free.  Your options:

1) Sit it out, and hope that VM do carry out improvement works.

2) Get yourself a new ISP. If you're in a fixed term contract you'll probably have to use the VM complaints process (and arbitration at CISAS if need be) to try and be released from contract without penalty, using as a basis the Consumer Rights Act 2015, which requires services to be delivered with reasonable skill and care.  You'll have to build a case backed by multiple days of BQM plots that show that magic profile where it all works nicely in the small hours of the night, and you should expect VM to resist, and you have to involve CISAS.