1gig, hub 5, unusable for online gaming, packet loss and latency issues

[JuicyGoomba]

Hello,

I've been with Virgin for almost 4 years now, as they are unfortunately the only provider nearby that does high speed broadband.

I say unfortunately, because I have nothing but issues both with dropouts and online gameplay since joining Virgin. The Hub 3 and Hub 4 were both awful even in modem mode and contributed their fair share towards the issues. I've recently managed to get upgraded to the Hub 5, but aside from the dropouts being fixed, the issues with latency and packet loss continue.

Online gaming is virtually impossible now. Even when the latency is good, I get constant packet loss varying from 1%-5%. 1% is noticeable, especially on competitive games, and 5% is just a waste of time. I setup a BQM a couple of days ago along with the Hub 5, the connection seemed relatively stable for the first day outside of a single large latency spike, but the packet loss could still be seen. As the days have gone by, the packet loss has only increased in number and frequency, as has the latency issues.

My current network setup is as barebones as can be. I previously had the Hub 4 in modem mode, connected to a Nest Wifi router as it was noticeably more reliable for everything. I've since been trialing the Hub 5 as the only router, and all I have connected to it is 2x phones via wifi, 1x Fire Stick by ethernet, and 2x PCs by ethernet. In fairness to the Hub 5, it is actually capable of functioning as a decent router, and is comparable to the Nest Wifi in performance (likely helped by no longer using the god awful Intel Puma chip in the Hub 3/4).

I figured only having the Virgin router and a barebones setup would at least help with finding the issues here. The packet loss is just as bad as with the Hub 3/4, as is the latency spikes. As I said before, the only improvement so far is that I don't have dropouts as far as I can see. The Hub 4 in modem mode still required an almost daily power cycle to maintain some degree of stability.

I have shared the BQM below. I'm currently debating switching to BT's slow copper FTTC for the sake of making online gameplay usable. I play a lot of competitive shooters, and it is literally killing me. Even online coop games were unplayable with the Hub 4 due to the dropouts. My neighbour is 3 doors down connected to the same line, and he has all of the same issues.

I've tried all the usual fault reporting processes via the My Virgin area, but the whole process is as useless as it is frustrating.

I have also attached my logs from the router below as well, if that helps.

Spoiler

Upstream:

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID

0	49600000	43	5120	QAM 64	1
1	43100000	42	5120	QAM 64	2
2	36600000	41.5	5120	QAM 64	3
3	30100000	41	5120	QAM 64	4
4	23600000	41	5120	QAM 64	5

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts

0	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
1	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
2	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
3	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
4	ATDMA	0	0	0	0

Spoiler

Downstream:

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID

1	330000000	3	42	QAM 256	25
2	138000000	6.9	43	QAM 256	1
3	146000000	6.7	43	QAM 256	2
4	154000000	6.4	43	QAM 256	3
5	162000000	5.8	43	QAM 256	4
6	170000000	5.6	43	QAM 256	5
7	178000000	5.5	43	QAM 256	6
8	186000000	5.5	43	QAM 256	7
9	194000000	5.6	43	QAM 256	8
10	202000000	5.3	43	QAM 256	9
11	210000000	5.2	43	QAM 256	10
12	218000000	4.3	42	QAM 256	11
13	226000000	3.2	42	QAM 256	12
14	234000000	3	42	QAM 256	13
15	242000000	2.8	42	QAM 256	14
16	250000000	2.7	42	QAM 256	15
17	258000000	2.7	42	QAM 256	16
18	266000000	2.6	42	QAM 256	17
19	274000000	2.6	42	QAM 256	18
20	282000000	2.6	42	QAM 256	19
21	290000000	2.7	42	QAM 256	20
22	298000000	2.7	42	QAM 256	21
23	306000000	2.7	42	QAM 256	22
24	314000000	2.8	42	QAM 256	23
25	322000000	2.9	42	QAM 256	24
26	338000000	3.2	43	QAM 256	26
27	346000000	3.1	43	QAM 256	27
28	354000000	2.7	42	QAM 256	28
29	362000000	2.4	42	QAM 256	29
30	370000000	2.1	42	QAM 256	30
31	378000000	1.9	42	QAM 256	31

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors

1	Locked	42	12705	0
2	Locked	43	1522	0
3	Locked	43	1947	0
4	Locked	43	1912	0
5	Locked	43	2770	0
6	Locked	43	6614	124
7	Locked	43	3360	0
8	Locked	43	3149	0
9	Locked	43	3123	0
10	Locked	43	2718	0
11	Locked	43	3617	0
12	Locked	42	3370	0
13	Locked	42	3967	0
14	Locked	42	4525	0
15	Locked	42	5927	0
16	Locked	42	6581	0
17	Locked	42	7539	0
18	Locked	42	7913	0
19	Locked	42	7187	0
20	Locked	42	8266	0
21	Locked	42	10488	0
22	Locked	42	13910	0
23	Locked	42	13019	0
24	Locked	42	11273	0
25	Locked	42	12152	0
26	Locked	43	15691	0
27	Locked	43	14751	0
28	Locked	42	18280	0
29	Locked	42	20581	0
30	Locked	42	25315	0
31	Locked	42	33029	0

Spoiler

Router network log for today:

Time Priority Description

13-03-2023 16:12:36	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 16:12:36	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 15:35:26	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 15:35:26	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 15:35:23	error	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 14:52:57	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 14:52:57	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:49:29	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:49:29	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:42:13	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:42:13	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:11:43	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:11:43	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:08:58	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:08:58	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 12:43:13	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 12:43:13	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 12:12:45	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 12:12:45	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 11:12:55	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 11:12:55	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 10:16:46	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 10:16:46	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 09:14:06	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 09:14:06	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 08:26:01	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 08:26:01	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 06:24:52	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 06:24:52	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 06:14:45	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 06:14:45	notice	US profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 05:08:19	warning	DBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;

[carl_pearce]

---

@JuicyGoomba wrote:

Engineer said he couldn't do anything, same as the last engineer.

Advised us to try a Cat 7 cable as it's better than Cat5e, I'm still not sure whether to laugh or cry at the suggestion that a Cat 7 cable will somehow fix the issues that occur before they even hit my wired network in the house.

The engineer also claimed to have Cat 9 in his own home as it's better. Not sure whether he was joking or not, if he was being serious then I'm not exactly surprised at how bad the network runs. For those with limited or no knowledge of networking, Cat 9 doesn't exist.

He also wanted our WiFi password to run tests, which is strange. Either way I wasn't home and I'm apparently the only one who knows it.

Here's a lovely graph of the last 24 hours:

If anyone is reading this and considering using Virgin media, I'd say unless you're extremely deperate to the point where normal FTTC broadband or even a 5G router is not an option then steer well clear.

---

There was a national outage on Tuesday.

Have you had the HUB replaced as yet?

The Post RS Errors suggest an issue with the HUB.

[JuicyGoomba]

That doesn't explain the exact same issues with the hub 4, and hub 3 previous to that. 

It's the virgin network. 

[Andrew-G]

I agree JuicyGoomba, evidence conclusively points to a fault on the local VM network - maybe a cracked core on coax or something similarly intermittent and hard to detect.  However, VM have had many chances to take ownership and sort it out, clearly as a corporate entity they can't be bothered, so where are you contractually?  And what are your other ISP options?

If a fixed term is coming to an end, then just arrange a new ISP and cancel VM by letter.  If you've got time to run on a fixed term, then VM might just agree to release you without penalty, but more likely you'd have to use complaints and Ombudsman Services to get that outcome (and say £100-150 compensation for the poor connection, poor customer service and need to escalate to the ombudsman).

[JuicyGoomba]

Contract ended last month thankfully, but still took 4 painful phone calls to finally get it cancelled. The biggest downside is that Virgin retentions dept are now relentlessly calling me, presumably to offer me a deal that wasn't available when I cancelled, how convenient.

Only standard BT FTTC around here sadly, and there's a giant hill in the way of the 5G mast so no 5G router as an alternative either. Back to 70-80mbps speeds for a couple of years it looks like.

My neighbours connection is just as bad, always looks the same on BQM, so likely something at the node or futher along the chain. As you say, it's not in Virgin's interest to bother fixing it, and they've just lost two customers who were sitting on £62/m contracts.

[Akua_A]

Sorry to hear you have left our services @JuicyGoomba We can understand the frustration the ongoing issues may have caused you. We will take your feedback onboard and pass it on to the relevant team for quality training and improvement. You can also opt out of marketing calls via your my VM account https://www.virginmedia.com/my-virgin-media . Please also do not hesitate to contact us if you need any further help.

Thanks,

[hash70]

Someone who jst got 1 gig installed I feel ur pain,latency is fickin terrible,no way should anyone be seeing packet loss on a 1 gig connection,I jst for email from cityfiber who said my street is going live in the next few weeks,I think il be jumping ship

[JuicyGoomba]

I had BT FTTC 80mbps installed on Monday, and everything other than download speeds are significantly faster and more stable than Virgin.

As an example, I haven't had a single lost packet when gaming, and the latency is 10-15ms LOWER than Virgin.

I consistently get 19ms flat stable connections to Acti/Blizzard games such as WoW, Overwatch, and CoD. Before it was 35-40ms with 1-2% packet loss at all times with Virgin.

On Rocket League, I got into a game on a local UK server (they seem to have servers all over Europe) and I had a constant 15ms connection. It's unheard of for me. On Virgin it's 26-30ms on a UK RL server, and constant red warning signs for packet loss.

Downloaded BF1 to try, as I'd previously uninstalled a long time ago blaiming EA's servers... yet it was Virgin all along. Stable 29ms on a large conquest server, bullets are INSTANT. Not a single lost packet, and for once it feels like the only limited to how well I play is me, not the stupid Virgin connection.

Seriously, bullets register the second I click. Instant hit registration, a Lawrence SMLE clicking a head on BF1 = instant ded. No questions asked. 

The worst part about all of this is that my neighbour mitigated a lot, but not all, of the packet loss issues by using a £300 Asus router. I'm not willing to do that when BT's 5 year old ancient Smart Hub 2 can deliver an outstanding gaming experience despite having the value of around a tenner. I go to his and while it's not great, it's significantly better than what I experienced with both the Hub 5 and a Nest WiFi with the Hub 5 in modem. We're on the same node, 3 doors away. 

No BQM charts sadly for the BT connection, as it doesn't support the pings and I'm not willing to DMZ a device on the network in order to work around it. All I can say is even on BF2042 I now have a solid 29ms in every game. The latency line for my connection remains completely flat with no variation. 

If anyone is reading this and is considering Virgin, I can only advise to take out two lines. One BT line strictly for gaming, and one Virgin line if you need the 1gbps speed for downloads.

I currently have both lines, but seriously considering just cancelling the Virgin line altogether and living with 80mbps BT. Even something as basic as loading up a website is quicker on BT, despite being significantly slower on paper. Guess thats the 15ms reduction in latency doing it's job. Set 1.1.1.1 as your DNS and it's the fastest I've ever seen a website load.

[Sabrina_B]

Hi @JuicyGoomba 👋.

Thanks for reaching out to us. Apologies in the delayed response. Are you still having the same issues or is this now resolved?

Keep us updated.

Sabrina

[VMUser1812]

---

@JuicyGoomba wrote:

I had BT FTTC 80mbps installed on Monday, and everything other than download speeds are significantly faster and more stable than Virgin.

As an example, I haven't had a single lost packet when gaming, and the latency is 10-15ms LOWER than Virgin.

I consistently get 19ms flat stable connections to Acti/Blizzard games such as WoW, Overwatch, and CoD. Before it was 35-40ms with 1-2% packet loss at all times with Virgin.

On Rocket League, I got into a game on a local UK server (they seem to have servers all over Europe) and I had a constant 15ms connection. It's unheard of for me. On Virgin it's 26-30ms on a UK RL server, and constant red warning signs for packet loss.

Downloaded BF1 to try, as I'd previously uninstalled a long time ago blaiming EA's servers... yet it was Virgin all along. Stable 29ms on a large conquest server, bullets are INSTANT. Not a single lost packet, and for once it feels like the only limited to how well I play is me, not the stupid Virgin connection.

Seriously, bullets register the second I click. Instant hit registration, a Lawrence SMLE clicking a head on BF1 = instant ded. No questions asked. 

The worst part about all of this is that my neighbour mitigated a lot, but not all, of the packet loss issues by using a £300 Asus router. I'm not willing to do that when BT's 5 year old ancient Smart Hub 2 can deliver an outstanding gaming experience despite having the value of around a tenner. I go to his and while it's not great, it's significantly better than what I experienced with both the Hub 5 and a Nest WiFi with the Hub 5 in modem. We're on the same node, 3 doors away. 

No BQM charts sadly for the BT connection, as it doesn't support the pings and I'm not willing to DMZ a device on the network in order to work around it. All I can say is even on BF2042 I now have a solid 29ms in every game. The latency line for my connection remains completely flat with no variation. 

If anyone is reading this and is considering Virgin, I can only advise to take out two lines. One BT line strictly for gaming, and one Virgin line if you need the 1gbps speed for downloads.

I currently have both lines, but seriously considering just cancelling the Virgin line altogether and living with 80mbps BT. Even something as basic as loading up a website is quicker on BT, despite being significantly slower on paper. Guess thats the 15ms reduction in latency doing it's job. Set 1.1.1.1 as your DNS and it's the fastest I've ever seen a website load.

---

And, yes, the thing to realise, is that there is little or no correlation between ‘raw headline’ download speed and latency and jitter, for gaming, you can actually get away with a fairly low ‘speed’ as long as, said latency and jitter is low. The idea that a ‘faster speed’ equates to a better gaming experience, is, well somewhat exaggerated. *

So if you were to cancel the VM connection completely, the worse would be that game pitches and updates would take a fair degree longer to download - is that worth what you are paying? Only you can answer that one!

* actually it’s a complete lie, but ISPs hope nobody notices that inconvenient truth!

[ynotchat]

I'm having similar issues. 1gbit service. 1-5% packet loss (upload only downloads are fine (solid 0%). area: south hertfordshire.

hub 5 reboots help. i rebooted tonight and its down to 0.3% loss (even with a lowly pubg packet loss test of 130p/s). like you i have other routers but i left the hub in router mode (mostly through the hell that was modem mode on the puma chip on hub4) and it gives me a nice dmz to put web facing things on with an internal router handling wifi and lan protection. double nat isnt the cause as packetloss minimises on hub5 reboots, but i should really test that theory before jumping ship.

i really cba to go through the fanfare of support calls to fix it and my contracts up in 2 months as well. 1gbit is great, but not worth the PL in 1st person gaming. i "think" im lucky enough to have a g.fast enabled hub for 300mbit FTTC, but i'd take a solid 60-80mbit/s.  I must give some of that cat 9 a go, that'll probably sort it out instantly, my lowly cat5e just cant keep up 😉 heh.