Forum Discussion

sjcgb's avatar
sjcgb
Tuning in
4 months ago
Solved

all messages from gmail going to spam

Hello, all emails coming from gmail addresses are automatically going into my VM spam folder.

Marking them as 'not spam' (and refreshing the page) makes no difference for new gmail messages. Only gmail messages are going into the spam folder, all others are going into the inbox just fine.

My public email address is (I think it's called) an alias using redirection to my VM address from a seperate domain server but this arrangement has been working for years with VM (and before that with other providers since 1990!)

Does anyone have an answer please?

Thanks

 


  • sjcgb wrote:

    So if it's not a general VM issue, what could it be about my setup that is making VM mark my Gmail receipts as spam and not yours?


    Sorry, I did not spot that email header you posted.

    Putting that header through this email header analyser https://mxtoolbox.com/EmailHeaders.aspx (it's a universal  checker so it's independent of VM)  comes up with the following errors:

    the red crosses indicate there are issues with the DKIM record.

    And specifically:

    Dkim Signature Error:
    DKIM-Signature d:Required tag not found s:Required tag not found h:Required tag not found bh:Required tag not found b:Required tag not found - more info

     

    Dkim Signature Error:
    There must be at least one aligned DKIM-Signature for the message to be considered aligned. - more info

    Edited to add:

    spf=softfail (185.151.28.75;gmail.com);
    dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com;
    dmarc=pass header.from=gmail.com (p=none sp=quarantine dis=pass)

    The spf "softfail" indicates that the email should be flagged as spam

    VM do seem very hot on their SPF, DMARC and DKIM checks on incoming emails so it's not surprising VM view that email as being suspicious. It's understandable VM play safe because they want to protect their email customers from getting spoofed emails from scammers.

    Perhaps you could raise those errors with your domain provider or the email forwarder if you are using a separate organisation to do that.

    However, using email forwarding to manage email on a private domain is always prone to problems like this and not just those with VM email accounts.

    People using email forwarding regularly report that their private domain emails suddenly stop arriving because of a change somewhere in the email authentication process. It's been regularly reported here and on the forums of other email providers for many years.

    I have just had a look at the UK2 website (it seems that is who you are with) and they offer email packages from 50p a month. You need to think about looking into moving over to using one of the offerings. Ideally you want one that offers a webmail service and also supports IMAP/SMTP as well. That will allow you to use an email app or client to manage your private domain emails. There is always the option to run your own email server but using an email package from your domain supplier is a good option for a non techie.😉

    Also, bear in mind that the whole future of the VM email is uncertain. VM stopped issuing new email accounts more than 2 1/2 years ago and they have just started a big push to closing VM email accounts that are not linked to a VM broadband package. Clearly they do not see their email service as being a long term part of the business plan moving forward so moving to more professional setup with your private domain would seem to make perfect sense.

    Sorry to go on but I hope that's all useful food for thought.

    Coenoby

    • sjcgb's avatar
      sjcgb
      Tuning in

      If it helps, here are the headers (personal domain and email addresses removed and changed to xxxx);

      Return-Path: <xxxx@gmail.com>
      Delivered-To: xxxx@virginmedia.com
      Received: from dcdir3-prd-nl1-vmo.nl1.unified.services ([100.107.82.2])
      by dcbe54-prd-nl1-vmo.nl1.unified.services with LMTP
      id 4Ng3AJ3HFGdjkzcAqCyFow:T1471:P1
      (envelope-from <xxxx@gmail.com>)
      for <xxxx@virginmedia.com>; Sun, 20 Oct 2024 13:21:03 +0200
      Received: from smtpclienthelo ([100.107.82.2])
      by dcdir3-prd-nl1-vmo.nl1.unified.services with LMTP
      id 4Ng3AJ3HFGdjkzcAqCyFow:T1471
      (envelope-from <xxxx@gmail.com>)
      for <xxxx@virginmedia.com>; Sun, 20 Oct 2024 13:21:03 +0200
      Authentication-Results: edge.unified.services;
      spf=softfail (185.151.28.75;gmail.com);
      dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com;
      dmarc=pass header.from=gmail.com (p=none sp=quarantine dis=pass)
      Precedence: junk
      X-Env-Mailfrom: xxxx@gmail.com
      X-Env-Rcptto: xxxx@virginmedia.com
      X-SourceIP: 185.151.28.75
      X-Spam: yes
      X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=MoUA6Hae c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=6714e79f cx=a_exe:a_idp_d
      a=n+/VqXTnfdOG5IeByndhFw==:117 a=UXTx4WU-ISMA:10 a=DAUX931o1VcA:10
      a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=x0B2s02BPz8A:10 a=95EFz5htlIgA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8
      a=qT4X14QBAAAA:8 a=Rb5u4BICRzAjKzDoIsgA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10
      a=KYZgPActY4QfTCZFegIA:9 a=7TK44ac3OIUbjXjN:21 a=lqcHg5cX4UMA:10
      a=Uz9EnhuHEG25YKoRyM-d:22 a=a_ePsbsfc-W8hOlYjGkM:22
      X-Spam-Action: folder Spam
      X-Spam-Reason: SMCH_ACTION=reject
      Received: from fwd-relay1.stackmail.com ([185.151.28.75])
      (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 256/256 bits)
      (Client did not present a certificate)
      by mx4-prd-nl1-vmo.edge.unified.services with ESMTPS
      id 2TzatogqxkgI92TzatbB1U; Sun, 20 Oct 2024 13:21:02 +0200
      ARC-Seal: i=1; cv=none; a=rsa-sha256; d=fwd-relay1.stackmail.com; s=s1;
      b=rJ/j+ArkqEp7WYWNRyOk1P7EKbq//tEpEPaYJ+A1pfYFf0zBq94WRCwU3rGDmo2vAm3OJjd8ur
      rPw7/sEeWAIZutP506wh+dWf1TkQ2ieNi1onj8UT0hXv481CSSZB4Skz21rOAXC8e9/N9Lx+Cj
      RRR45m7M144VTsUlvTxzj6dM3qWVYEUy3PNxeTvWmXbxS7SAC4uyzF/eKrpydRYfoXcLYZ8JdA
      iB45GPSZibun7bdnd0ZplZu2y4D8xBIXhEhAeSsjzLpRwVi3K4dfBTz+vf5kYUo4kp+HI3PGEc
      kz9SjB8i+ZmIMpLVeLLx9QoKjrc7T4DtTxTbhzqwIQuE2A==;
      ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; fwd-relay1.stackmail.com; smtp.remote-ip=10.4.12.5;
      iprev=fail smtp.remote-ip=10.4.12.5
      ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=fwd-relay1.stackmail.com; s=s1;
      bh=kdTzEBPRT4LCpLhKjgArTdgF4QA4+uYYVNrogVqPwl4=;
      h=Resent-From:Resent-Date:Content-Type:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:From:
      In-Reply-To:References:MIME-Version:DKIM-Signature;
      b=TqAA5l5x7eKDaRiFLGFDYf5Z/UKFtZ3KnfMDZzGzCB4n5ZIi+5hTb1Do3Mguia39r3Yhib8kDp
      XWcQWiEZfQpai9UayFcvv5xxHT+gAS05xEcQNKdQ3LjY4zGjYi7LW24mrnrsz0RbjrBwFiGgts
      Xxa/TaKhzeDaY9ZQUrmEpi/foQ6PE+kzccqxwlofERhw9xJvqDLVPfp4/qbznAuPN3hD30FCDV
      dO6MelnaKATeRD+rWhPBbQfzzwlLhvRZOzrE9gK/qKFtmYwEyea55+jzi2o4720oaRQwwZMTIB
      fvtXPlWONpckkHdqBuSX9hctnBNwF8QrfVeSzHRmG194Lw==;
      Authentication-Results: fwd-relay1.stackmail.com;
      iprev=fail smtp.remote-ip=10.4.12.5
      Received: from [10.4.12.5] (helo=mx1.lhr.stackcp.net)
      by fwd-relay1.stackmail.com with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384
      (Exim 4.98)
      (envelope-from <xxxx@gmail.com>)
      id 1t2Tza-0000000013H-39mr
      for xxxx@virginmedia.com;
      Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:21:02 +0100
      Authentication-Results: mx1.lhr.stackcp.net;
      iprev=pass (mail-yw1-f182.google.com) smtp.remote-ip=209.85.128.182;
      spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com;
      dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.a=rsa-sha256;
      dmarc=skipped;
      arc=none
      Received-SPF: pass (mx1.lhr.stackcp.net: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.128.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.128.182; envelope-from=xxxx@gmail.com; helo=mail-yw1-f182.google.com;
      Received: from mail-yw1-f182.google.com ([209.85.128.182])
      by mx1.lhr.stackcp.net with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
      (Exim 4.98)
      (envelope-from <xxxx@gmail.com>)
      id 1t2Tza-0000000059x-2SEv
      for xxxx@(domain).org.uk;
      Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:21:02 +0100
      Received: by mail-yw1-f182.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6e33c65d104so31156987b3.3
      for <xxxx@(domain).org.uk>; Sun, 20 Oct 2024 04:21:02 -0700 (PDT)
      DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
      d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1729423261; x=1730028061; darn=(domain).org.uk;
      h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version
      :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
      bh=kdTzEBPRT4LCpLhKjgArTdgF4QA4+uYYVNrogVqPwl4=;
      b=Oq3ODrHYaR/rKDIspjBLwmUTt0XP+KDr6TENubDvaeEkAexZu2rYmM8ySm4HgSpX9j
      24vIE4QKvCfAdkQZEYZnTXExvYxF5d9yStQtb4liz90347yj7W8VrJnLAjLxZZARh2u7
      B680oQxLgvDyLqtskVC9TNOo12bn4Ed9Zd2MrrLso0HlvKVA4ZBp6Tj8X1WrrHn4gAcp
      uz9OB2JNlDPxCXoFjCJuHlwKE/IYfenJbjVDmfPfjnmNt5MR0YwnyN8l1cPs3IFggiEu
      osFzH/U17gPN1IZX3Oc1O3H86T3VYQKFPhUJ3PKjQaCTjH05MlHR3XFPqUsD+uF9e7Q/
      H7eQ==
      X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
      d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1729423261; x=1730028061;
      h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version
      :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
      bh=kdTzEBPRT4LCpLhKjgArTdgF4QA4+uYYVNrogVqPwl4=;
      b=pO0VfFuFpwaNBhI1K3yy/TbiPd3XIfcYLu9O5I11HNe1gwfgwGfO67+DzmciXO8Yp7
      JexbXL2PqAEE6pUwLqKwkAHz9KIumzUqoNTT0lNdWnpQSSXrR52Lc7v3WW6jyfqcmAmT
      CEwkCMDhITpAHHKYBWD1hXvNPZj3cqJS2QB7wO3lLDDHraIR3ilC7Yj3c3zGgcivFXhY
      KDIMICjEel5XvIm7CNNg1xyCpRjYh3wUUshtoy9xLTjHQgx4v3Nl3zQULM3qUS5NYCvF
      WySdSMkVibNBsr61GPLm3zyM6pEn8fmsWxhE1UAlxboVxOdVZbZ0FvhIzqseqexX6URp
      1RzA==
      X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxdumZwuJ39Alkty9i/s0oWrd/EwVmwwU3KB3U48VKaoGDcMN/z
      00wbtpN5KuhFwhb01VW1qmov7DCRLA09ck9sr7agMk8PYtBunPzqI0URACNGNarTOS2+Ha7+rq2
      ryZKdZPvD3F4/+y6U+Xu7v3xj40QWjA==
      X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFB145XOt4Y/+WhRaLni5Ycjb6vpY0Kr8LmVap+v9156pzthka7BJwCA8lFHKd0CEyMIfx7mqO+IpQkVVPIhPg=
      X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:4b01:b0:6e2:1062:9b90 with SMTP id
      00721157ae682-6e5bfd89b4dmr83129827b3.44.1729423261404; Sun, 20 Oct 2024
      04:21:01 -0700 (PDT)
      MIME-Version: 1.0
      References: <28b991c4-bbac-4651-8753-426a1fee3027@(domain).org.uk>
      <CAMQ+v954x1r7QsTs1LFVGUTQFROaYWZ9uX6=_FskJ0y65tBwkg@mail.gmail.com> <CAMQ+v963-5nPL=LCUMex7XRKKd4w=hg5ip0mnSHQ-6_r=sGAjA@mail.gmail.com>
      In-Reply-To: <CAMQ+v963-5nPL=LCUMex7XRKKd4w=hg5ip0mnSHQ-6_r=sGAjA@mail.gmail.com>
      From: xxxx@gmail.com>
      Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:20:25 +0100
      Message-ID: <CAMQ+v94vSs=u3-S_DBC838DWJbJAEwbedB+fYV-Ou_zPxdjSgA@mail.gmail.com>
      Subject: Fwd: Testing testing.....
      To: <xxxx@(domain).org.uk>
      Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000299d590624e6bb01"
      X-Spam-Score: -5.6 (-----)
      X-Spam-Report: Action: no action
      Symbol: FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)
      Symbol: FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)
      Symbol: RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)
      Symbol: PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)
      Symbol: MIME_GOOD(-0.10)
      Symbol: MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)
      Symbol: NEURAL_HAM(0.00)
      Symbol: RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)
      Symbol: R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)
      Symbol: DKIM_REPUTATION(-0.76)
      Symbol: GENERIC_REPUTATION(-0.75)
      Symbol: ASN(0.00)
      Symbol: MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)
      Symbol: SPF_REPUTATION_HAM(-0.77)
      Symbol: DKIM_TRACE(0.00)
      Symbol: DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)
      Symbol: TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)
      Symbol: TO_DN_ALL(0.00)
      Symbol: RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)
      Symbol: R_DKIM_ALLOW(-1.49)
      Symbol: FUZZY_BLOCKED(0.00)
      Symbol: IP_REPUTATION_HAM(-1.05)
      Symbol: RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)
      Symbol: ARC_NA(0.00)
      Symbol: MIME_TRACE(0.00)
      Symbol: FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)
      Symbol: FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)
      Message-ID: CAMQ+v94vSs=u3-S_DBC838DWJbJAEwbedB+fYV-Ou_zPxdjSgA@mail.gmail.com
      X-Forwarded-Spam: 0
      Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:21:02 +0100
      Resent-From: xxxx@(domain).org.uk
      X-Originating-IP: 209.85.128.182
      X-Stackmail-Forwarder: xxxx@(domain).org.uk
      X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfCoBx7ma/gVoYDWyBOezB6q5SQnGBbUlqGk2/SoFj9dUzA2BHHjjHR2Y/pt4jV5THxiy9VDVXrpyPrH++Xv+e1eHBLM5f/+sZYHrZMyF4MKu/ZmE2SZa
      Dw9/i3QG4sfu/8ORg4nylJ732LLhr9d7WAcYp26QF490YryvZ2GNztqmetcgEYXIF8lLZ+X5z11LVJSZValIWrfae3MZlVFCox8=

      --000000000000299d590624e6bb01
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
      Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

      • Carley_S's avatar
        Carley_S
        Forum Team

        Hi sjcgb 

        Welcome back to the community forums 

        Sorry to hear that emails coming from Gmail are moving into your spam folder. 

        Have you made any changes to your settings recently, can you try defaulting the settings to see if this resolves the issue? 

  • coenoby's avatar
    coenoby
    Very Insightful Person

    sjcgb wrote:

    all emails coming from gmail addresses are automatically going into my VM spam folder.

    Only gmail messages are going into the spam folder, all others are going into the inbox just fine.

    I've just sent a couple of test emails from my Gmail account to my VM and Ntlword email accounts and both messages went into the inbox. So it does not seem to be a general problem with VM sending Gmail messages going to spam.

    Marking them as 'not spam' (and refreshing the page) makes no difference for new gmail messages.

    Yes, that's the way the VM mail system works.

    Flagging an email as "Not spam" merely moves that specific email out of the spam folder. It has no effect on any similar incoming messages that arrive. Unlike many email services there does not seem to be a way to train the VM spam filter to your expectations of whether particular types of email are, or are not, spam.

    Also there is no way to set up a rule in your webmail to stop specific types of email from going to spam.  That's just one of the limitations of VM email.

    My public email address is (I think it's called) an alias using redirection to my VM address from a seperate domain server

    Just to keep it simple are these incoming Gmail messages;

    • actually addressed to your VM email address or
    • are they addressed to a different, (possibly a private domain) email address and being auto- forwarded to your VM address?

    I'm thinking it's the second of those options.

    Coenoby


     

    • sjcgb's avatar
      sjcgb
      Tuning in

      Hi coenoby and thanks for thinking about this in detail. Yes, they are addressed to a private domain email address and automatically forwarded to my VM address. This is an arrangement that has been working fine for 30 years!  (not always to VM but VM for the last 3 yrs).

      So if it's not a general VM issue, what could it be about my setup that is making VM mark my Gmail receipts as spam and not yours?

      I've posted a copy of headers earlier in the string . Is there anything else I should be checking?

      Thanks

      Steve 

      • coenoby's avatar
        coenoby
        Very Insightful Person

        sjcgb wrote:

        So if it's not a general VM issue, what could it be about my setup that is making VM mark my Gmail receipts as spam and not yours?


        Sorry, I did not spot that email header you posted.

        Putting that header through this email header analyser https://mxtoolbox.com/EmailHeaders.aspx (it's a universal  checker so it's independent of VM)  comes up with the following errors:

        the red crosses indicate there are issues with the DKIM record.

        And specifically:

        Dkim Signature Error:
        DKIM-Signature d:Required tag not found s:Required tag not found h:Required tag not found bh:Required tag not found b:Required tag not found - more info

         

        Dkim Signature Error:
        There must be at least one aligned DKIM-Signature for the message to be considered aligned. - more info

        Edited to add:

        spf=softfail (185.151.28.75;gmail.com);
        dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com;
        dmarc=pass header.from=gmail.com (p=none sp=quarantine dis=pass)

        The spf "softfail" indicates that the email should be flagged as spam

        VM do seem very hot on their SPF, DMARC and DKIM checks on incoming emails so it's not surprising VM view that email as being suspicious. It's understandable VM play safe because they want to protect their email customers from getting spoofed emails from scammers.

        Perhaps you could raise those errors with your domain provider or the email forwarder if you are using a separate organisation to do that.

        However, using email forwarding to manage email on a private domain is always prone to problems like this and not just those with VM email accounts.

        People using email forwarding regularly report that their private domain emails suddenly stop arriving because of a change somewhere in the email authentication process. It's been regularly reported here and on the forums of other email providers for many years.

        I have just had a look at the UK2 website (it seems that is who you are with) and they offer email packages from 50p a month. You need to think about looking into moving over to using one of the offerings. Ideally you want one that offers a webmail service and also supports IMAP/SMTP as well. That will allow you to use an email app or client to manage your private domain emails. There is always the option to run your own email server but using an email package from your domain supplier is a good option for a non techie.😉

        Also, bear in mind that the whole future of the VM email is uncertain. VM stopped issuing new email accounts more than 2 1/2 years ago and they have just started a big push to closing VM email accounts that are not linked to a VM broadband package. Clearly they do not see their email service as being a long term part of the business plan moving forward so moving to more professional setup with your private domain would seem to make perfect sense.

        Sorry to go on but I hope that's all useful food for thought.

        Coenoby