UDP issues on SuperHub3 - collective thread

[dinth]

Hi. I decided to open a collective thread for UDP issues on SuperHub3, as it seems that many users are pestered by them, the impact is high and Virgin Media is not aware or fails to acknowledge the issue so far (they've been trying to fix my issues for a past year and nobody ever suggested that this has anything to do with UDP packets, until i found whats exactly the issue on my own).

This is the main thread for those issues was this one: https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Speed/My-350Mb-connection-is-throttled-to-10Mb/td-p/3953746/pag... but it was originally created over a year ago and has a slightly misleading title. 

What we know so far:

1. The issue only occurs on SuperHub3 (and reportedly on SuperHub4) modem. SuperHub2 users are not affected. 

2. The issue occurs if an app/service is using an UDP connection to the internet. Examples of such apps: BBC Iplayer app, most online games, Microsoft Teams, Skype, third party VoIP apps, all kinds of VPN apps, torrent download apps. 

3. All UDP connections are performing very badly on Superhub3 modem, but also whenever there's a significant UDP traffic passing through the modem, other, non-UDP internet connections are slowed down to crawling speeds.

4. Depending on an user, the reported slowdowns are to between 10Mbps and 2kbps (!) speed measured through Speedtest. At the same time ping times go up all the way to 2000+ ms and huge packet losses (sometimes over 40%) occur. In other words, even web browsing is not possible if there's a significant UDP traffic going on through modem. 

5. VM street level fixes do not fix the problem - i had a whole uplink cable between CATV manhole and Virgin Media cabinet replaced by VM and it has not fixed the issue.

6. Replacing a modem does not fix the problem either - replacement SuperHub3 modems also have same issue.

7. Here's how the issue looks like on ThinkBroadband/Speedtest with just 1Mbps of UDP traffic flowing through the modem:

It's really sad, that Virgin Media fails to acknowledge this problem, as hundreds, if not thousands of people may be severly affected by it. The advice VM is giving out to the users is unhelpful and sometimes harmful (I've been told i need to chase the walls in the newly refurbrished house to replace my VM cable and desperate to fix the problem I have done that). Just look how many threads are being open on this forum describing similar issues with apps using UDP connections. 

[dinth]

The only real cure is SH5. Even putting the modem in router mode as a workaround doesn't completely fix the problem. Sure UDP does no longer completely kill the modem but still seeing some weird fluctuations during heavy UDP use 

[Andrew-G]

---

@dinth wrote:

The only real cure is SH5. Even putting the modem in router mode as a workaround doesn't completely fix the problem. Sure UDP does no longer completely kill the modem but still seeing some weird fluctuations during heavy UDP use 

---

What leads you to think the Hub 5 is better?  I've used a Hub 3 for about five years, had a Hub 5 for around six months, evident difference in daily use and gaming = nil.  Net difference visible in a BQM = nil.  Difference in speed and reliability = nil.  Difference in DOCSIS error types and rates = nil.

DOCSIS is adequate for all purposes, but is not and never will be the best technology for more demanding uses.  Anybody who honestly believes that a Hub 5 will solve perceived problems (other than as a placebo) is kidding themselves, and either needs to accept it for what it is, or get themselves a VDSL or genuine PON connection.  VM will eventually provide PON...for those willing to wait some years.

[dinth]

---

@Andrew-G wrote:

What leads you to think the Hub 5 is better? 

 Reports from users who had SH3 upgraded to SH5 earlier in this thread.

---

@Andrew-G wrote:

DOCSIS is adequate for all purposes, but is not and never will be the best technology for more demanding uses.  Anybody who honestly believes that a Hub 5 will solve perceived problems (other than as a placebo) is kidding themselves, and either needs to accept it for what it is, or get themselves a VDSL or genuine PON connection.  VM will eventually provide PON...for those willing to wait some years.

---

The issue which is being discussed here has literally nothing to do with a connection itself, but the (hardware?) bug in SH3/4 modems provided by VM. From my experience, VM DOCSIS is good enough even for very demanding (selfhosting, etc) user, as tested on SH2. Problems started when my modem was upgraded to SH3. 

[Andrew-G]

My point still stands - that there's no difference in the service customers get from a Hub 3 as they would see from a Hub 5.  As and when the bugs are ironed out the Hub 5 has a few benefits (faster speed potential, more D/S channels, Wifi 6 and a 2.5 Gbps ethernet port), those will have no bearing on the alleged chipset flaws. 

[1979Damian]

You mean, apart from whenever a user wants to use certain types of application that are UDP traffic heavy and the SH3 takes a dump...

The issues relating to this are nothing to do with DOCSIS and the inherent weakness/defect regarding the Intel Puma chipset are well known and documented to anyone with an interest in this kind of thing.  (a quick search online will find plenty of articles relating to this issue, which is NOT a VM specific issue).

It's a similar principle to if Qualcomm's latest flagship mobile SOC (system on a chip) was massively more power hungry than expected and as a result had to be seriously throttled to prevent overheating of the phone/tablet etc.  If Samsung, LG and Sony were using the chip, you wouldn't say that the root cause was a Samsung issue, you'd say it's a Qualcomm issue.

[dinth]

---

@Andrew-G wrote:

My point still stands - that there's no difference in the service customers get from a Hub 3 as they would see from a Hub 5. 

---

What chipset does SH5 use? Because contrary to what you are saying, there are users who had SH3/4 replaced with SH5 resolving their UDP traffic issues

---

@Andrew-G wrote:

alleged

---

You keep using this word, but the issue has been confirmed and replicated by dozens of users just in this thread. Not to mention hundreds of threads on this forum describing similar problems and never getting resolved by VM. 

[1979Damian]

I'm led to believe the SH5 uses a SOC from Broadcom.

[splendid2k]

Just an FYI. I'm currently on the Superhub 5 trial and can report the device handles udp traffic flows (that would cause my 3 to fall over) like a champ.

[1979Damian]

Excellent, although it's only a single anecdotal experience, it's hopefully a sign of things to come!

[DevonWarrior]

Thats a relief.   Would have liked to been on that trial as well although did they offer it to Virgin Business Media accounts or just Virgin Media only ?