How configure Hub5 (M500) and Tenda Nova MW3 mesh

[NotSoYoda]

Hello Community. Just joined today. My query is a little long but I'll try to keep it as clear as I can. My technical knowledge is 'limited to average' so any complicated jargon my well escape me, so please feel free to dumb down your replies to suit a newbie.

I'm currently on a Hub3 and, if I can find some help here, may soon consider stepping up to a Hub5, so my question is somewhat forward looking. 2 years ago and with very limited knowledge, I connected my Tenda MW3 as per instructions (may also upgrade to a Tenda MX15 Pro if I can resolve current problem). Meaning: Hub3 is now in Router mode, and Tenda MW3 is in DHCP mode. Main Tenda node connected via ethernet to Hub3, and the other 2 nodes scattered around the house. I have changed nothing in the Tenda settings since installation. I now understand that this setup is incorrect as both systems are essentially acting as "separate routers" and are in conflict in what I've read is a Double NAT situation (means nothing to me but it sounds bad!). This probably explains my slow wifi speeds. Currently connecting my laptop via ethernet to Hub3 and the other 3 ports are also being utilised using ethernet cables. All ports are receiving the full 500mbps speeds so I have no issues there.

However, I am a little unclear when it comes to the SSID namings: I have given the VM Hub3 network SSID one name and I have split the bands in the settings to show both 2.4 and 5Ghz for easy identification. And gave the Tenda mesh its own separate name at installation but I don't know how to separate the bands in Tenda settings, so I only see one name.

As with so many people, I have numerous wireless smart devices which all connect via the 2.4Ghz band and, in my case, all are connected to the Tenda mesh. Apart from my phone, I do not have any smart device connecting to the VM Hub3 network on either band. For reasons that may become apparent shortly, some of these devices are inaccessible, so I cannot physically get to them should 'device resetting' become necessary, if or when I have to change or rename network SSIDs. To be perfectly clear about the nature of my query, even with this so-called Double NAT conflicting setup, all my devices are working reasonably fine, and I have a workable wifi signal, although nowhere near as fast as my M500 speed would suggest! My aim here is to improve my poor wifi speed and fix the problem of having two separate networks working alongside each other, and the problems this represents any time I have to change routers or ISPs or SSID names.

From what I can gather, for best performance, the CORRECT mesh setup should be: Put the Hub3 into MODEM mode, and put the Tenda mesh into BRIDGE mode. I've also read that there is quite a specific sequence of events in order to achieve this properly (first connect this, then turn that off, then reboot, then do this, then do that etc etc) , so a simple step-by-step guide to do this would be greatly appreciated. I think this is the first step in solving my problem. Once I have successfully set things up correctly with your help, the question then becomes:

Many have suggested that when adding a mesh system in the correct manner, it is best to change the Tenda mesh SSID to MATCH the SAME name as the existing VM Hub3 network SSID, thereby making reconnecting any smart devices after a service disruption much easier, as well as allowing a seamless connection between nodes as you walk around your house. Now bear in mind that all my smart devices (including the inaccessible ones) are connected to the Tenda mesh SSID, so if I change this name, I will not be able to physically reset them, meaning that I have no choice but to KEEP my Tenda mesh SSID. So, since changing the Tenda SSID is not an option for me, wouldn't I simply have to rename the Hub3 SSID in the router settings to match the Tenda SSID? I appreciate this is obviously the reverse of what is the common advice, but does it actually matter which SSID name you change to best suit the circumstances? As long they are both sharing the same SSID name and password, does it really matter? Many people immediately change their VM SSID name to something more memorable during their initial setup anyway, and I have changed mine too, so obviously I can change it back again to something else.

I cannot really afford to lose the functionality of the smart devices that I cannot access physically. Please let me know if my logic of changing the Hub3 SSID name to match the existing Tenda mesh SSID is a workable solution. I can't see any particular reason why not but I am happy to be corrected. But if changing SSID names is not really the problem here, then perhaps just talking me through the whole Hub3/Tenda MW3 Modem mode/Bridge mode configuration would itself be a great help. And finally, please let me know if the configuration advice you're giving would be the same for the current Hub3 as it would be for the Hub5. If not the same, then perhaps best go with Hub5 configuration as I'll probably move to that soon anyway. Once I have fixed this issue, I will come back again to get some help about where exactly in this setup I can introduce a simple 8 port switch as I know I will need more wired connections soon.

My apologies that my very first question is quite a long one but I wanted to provide as much info as possible to make your task easier too, so I would appreciate any help that this community can provide.

Be gentle 😃

[carl_pearce]

The first issue you have is the Tenda mesh system uses 10/100 (100Mbps) ethernet ports, so you'll never see more than around 90Mbps across all the devices connected to the Tenda, wired or wireless, since you are connected to the HUB over one of the ethernet ports.

https://www.tendacn.com/uk/product/specification/MW3.html

You need to use a different solution to make the most of your M500 subscription (The Tenda MX15 Pro should work well with the HUB 3/5 in modem mode. You can alter the SSID to match the current HUB so you don't need to re-configure all your devices).

[NotSoYoda]

Thanks Carl. So if you're saying that as things stand, it is the Tenda's 10/100 specifications that are the limiting factor here, then how will I be able to distinguish whether it is in fact the 10/100 ports that are the issue.....or whether I've got slow WiFi speeds simply because I've got the Hub3 operating in the wrong (Router) mode which is creating the conflict? I have nothing (wired) connected into any of the Tenda nodes other than the Hub3 into the main node. To be honest, when I connect to the Tenda's WiFi network (not the Hub3's network) on my mobile phone and walk around the house conducting speed tests, I do often get speeds well in excess of 100mbps but still far short of the supplied speed, so I don't quite know what to make of your comment about the Tenda mesh's spec being the limiting problem here. Because you've said that a faster Tenda MX15Pro should work better when coupled with the Hub3/5 operating in Modem mode, I can't quite figure out from your answer how to separate out those 2 issues to identify the problem (slow Tenda product, or Hub in the wrong mode), and how to square that with the fact that I can get faster than 100mbps speeds in some parts of the house!

Also remember I'm receiving the full 500 speed at my laptop via ethernet direct into the Hub3. Now if I go ahead and put the Hub3 into Modem mode, you're suggesting my WiFi may not necessarily see much improvement. But if I do that, then what will this mean for my ethernet port connection as I'm currently connecting directly to it? Does it mean I will instead have to connect my laptop via ethernet directly to the first/main Tenda node which is connected to the Hub3? If that's the case, then won't I lose the functionality of the Hub3's other 3 built-in ports? In which case I'll almost certainly need the use of my new 8 port switch. Given that, where in this setup do I connect the switch to continue getting the full speed across all the ports to replace what I am losing from Hub3 now being in Modem mode? And is there anything else I need to consider or do or change in the Hub3 or Tenda settings, other than just putting the Hub3 into Modem mode?

From what I've read, many people do report improved WiFi speeds using any mesh system when things are configured correctly. So until such time that I upgrade to a better/faster mesh system, I would still like to be able to improve my WiFi speeds, and have access to as many ports as possible (via VM Hub or a switch) to maintain full speed ethernet conections wherever I need a wired connection.

I hope I've understood your comments correctly. Thanks

[legacy1]

Get a router with 1Gb ports change its SSID to something not the hub re-setup your wifi devices 

[carl_pearce]

Your wireless devices must be connecting to the HUB 3 to get faster than 90Mbps speeds.

Put the HUB 3 into modem mode and you'll soon experience the slower speeds, on both wired and wireless devices (You can only connect one wired device to the HUB in modem mode, in this case it will be one of the Tenda nodes). If you connect a switch to the main Tenda node connected to the HUB, it will be limited to 100Mbps also (90Mbps real world).

[NotSoYoda]

Carl, all my wireless smart devices (plugs, bulbs, cameras etc) are entirely connected to the Tenda mesh network 2.4Ghz, and I can see this confirmed in the Tenda app too. All other computers in the house are connected to Hub3 via ethernet cables. The only device connecting to the 5Ghz band of the Hub3 is my mobile. And as far as I'm aware, most wireless devices opertaing on the 2.4Ghz band don't need much more than 40-50mbps to work anyway -  it only becomes an issue if I keep adding more devices in due course. As I said earlier, the WiFi speeds are adequate enough to keep the smart devices working. Where I would like to see an improvement in speeds to reflect the fact that I have a 500mbps feed is when we walk around the house with laptops and phones and don't want to have to keep switching between the slow mesh WiFi and the faster Hub3 WiFi to get the best connection!

But I take your point about putting the Hub3 in Modem mode, connecting it to the first Tenda node and then connecting the switch to that node. So is my summary understanding right:   the feed into the house and Hub3 will be at 500mbps, and from there to the first node via ethernet will also be at 500mbps....but all subsequent downstream connections through the switch via ethernet cables would be limited to 100mbps, and that's purely because of the Tenda MW3's low spec?

If or when I step up to a Hub5, I know that it will come with 2x 2.5Ghz ports. And when I upgrade to a better Tenda system with 10/100/1000 ports (MW6 or higher), I'll be able to hook up my switch and have full speed across all 8 ports. So for now, keeping the existing Hub3, if I want to keep all my ethernet connections at full speed using the switch, I first have to upgrade the Tenda mesh to a model with faster 1Gig ports.

But going back to my original post, I still need some help understanding if my current configuration between Hub3/Tenda is causing the Double NAT conflict that's giving me slow WiFi. I need to know how to properly configure these things before ordering any new hardware. And then of cousre I'll still an answer to the SSID question: If I'm forced to keep the Tenda SSID and password for my wireless devices, can't I just change the Hub3's SSID name to match that of the Tenda, thereby creating one unified network across the house and keep every device connected without having to resest them manually, which I'll have to do if I change the WiFi network SSID of the Tenda to match that of the Hub's. Once I know how to fix this SSID conundrum, then I can go ahead and order an MW6, MW12 or MX15Pro!

[carl_pearce]

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@NotSoYoda wrote:

But I take your point about putting the Hub3 in Modem mode, connecting it to the first Tenda node and then connecting the switch to that node. So is my summary understanding right:   the feed into the house and Hub3 will be at 500mbps, and from there to the first node via ethernet will also be at 500mbps....but all subsequent downstream connections through the switch via ethernet cables would be limited to 100mbps, and that's purely because of the Tenda MW3's low spec?

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The HUB 3 has 1Gbps ethernet, which will be plugged into the first Tenda node that will negotiate to 100Mbps, so yes, all devices thereafter will be limited to around 90Mbps for internet speed. However, all devices connected to the switch, other than the Tenda node, will connect up to 1Gbps, so transferring data between these devices will see up to 940Mbps (Local data transfer).

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@NotSoYoda wrote:

If or when I step up to a Hub5, I know that it will come with 2x 2.5Ghz ports. And when I upgrade to a better Tenda system with 10/100/1000 ports (MW6 or higher), I'll be able to hook up my switch and have full speed across all 8 ports. So for now, keeping the existing Hub3, if I want to keep all my ethernet connections at full speed using the switch, I first have to upgrade the Tenda mesh to a model with faster 1Gig ports

 The HUB 5 only has one 2.5Gbps port, which won't serve any meaningful purpose as it will negotiate to 1Gbps but yes, upgrading to a better Tenda, or other, system will allow this faster speed, allowing 500Mbps download bandwidth across all your devices.

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@NotSoYoda wrote:

But going back to my original post, I still need some help understanding if my current configuration between Hub3/Tenda is causing the Double NAT conflict that's giving me slow WiFi. I need to know how to properly configure these things before ordering any new hardware. And then of cousre I'll still an answer to the SSID question: If I'm forced to keep the Tenda SSID and password for my wireless devices, can't I just change the Hub3's SSID name to match that of the Tenda, thereby creating one unified network across the house and keep every device connected without having to resest them manually, which I'll have to do if I change the WiFi network SSID of the Tenda to match that of the Hub's. Once I know how to fix this SSID conundrum, then I can go ahead and order an MW6, MW12 or MX15Pro!

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Double NAT would not slow down your WiFi, it's the 100Mbps connection between the first Tenda node and the HUB.

Setting the SSID to match between the HUB 3 and Tenda is fine, however, devices would potentially stay connected to the HUB 3 or Tenda as there is no smart roaming between these devices. It only works well in this scenario where the HUB 3 is out of range, but the Tenda is, so a wireless device would disconnect from one device, and connection to the other.

You need to ditch the MW3, purchase a mesh system with 1Gbps ethernet ports, put the HUB into modem mode, and set the SSID to whatever you want to limit the amount of devices you need to reconfigure.

[Roger_Gooner]

Your Tenda is a DHCP server, so it must be in router mode with the hub in modem mode.

[NotSoYoda]

Forgive me, as a network newbie, I'm probably missing something obvious here. And please excuse my excess wordage! I just want to be as clear as possible with my info so the clever folks in the Community can give the best advice possible. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here struggling with this!!

In the scenario we're discussing here, should I be connecting my 8 port switch into one of the ports of the Hub3/5, or into one of the ports on the main Tenda node...presumably after I have put the Hub3/5 into Modem mode? Meaning: fibre cable into the house to the Hub3/5 in Modem mode, then ethernet into main Tenda node (presumably now in Bridge mode...still not sure), and then the 8 port switch into the second port of the main Tenda node??

My understanding upto now has been that 10/100/1000 designation of any device referred to the speed capabilities of the actual ports over a physical ethernet cable, not its WiFi speed. You say "The HUB 3 has 1Gbps ethernet, which will be plugged into the first Tenda node that will negotiate to 100Mbps, so yes, all devices thereafter will be limited to around 90Mbps for internet speed. However, all devices connected to the switch, other than the Tenda node, will connect up to 1Gbps, so transferring data between these devices will see up to 940Mbps".  But is the '100mbps' you mention referring to the WiFi speed or cable connection speeds? If you're talking about the cable connection speeds from Hub3 to the first node....and I connect my switch to that same node.... then wouldn't it logically follow that anything connected to the switch via ethernet downstream will also be capped at 100mbps because that's all the Tenda can pump out?

The MW3's specs say it's a 1200mbps dual band mesh, with speeds of upto 300mbps on it's 2.4GHz band and 867MHz on the 5GHz. So if I put the Hub3/5 in Modem mode, then shouldn't the first main Tenda note relay those same speeds across to the other nodes in the house when connected to Hub via cable? Even under my current sub-optimal setup (Hub in router mode, wired connection to the Tenda in DHCP mode), I can often get WiFi speeds in excess of 150mbps when I'm alone in the house doing speed tests on my phone! How am I getting these WiFi speeds, even though the Tenda is limited to 100mbps as you're saying? I don't know what I'm missing here.

Any suggestions about how to implement the new settings in the right sequence? Others have suggested: First put Hub3/5 in Modem mode, then turn it off and remove all ethernet cables. Start up the Tenda mesh system. (NOTE: in the Tenda app Settings>>Internet settings>> there are only 4 options - PPPoE, DCHP, Static IP Address, Bridge. it's currently set to DHCP....should it be in Bridge?). Connect main Tenda node to the Hub3 (specifically port 4 on the Hub5). Turn on Hub3/5. Done. Any thoughts about this sequence?

I'm under the impression that the benefit of having just one matching SSID name between Hub and Tenda is so that EVERYTHING in the house (smart devices, laptops, phones etc etc) is always connecting to just one network. And in the event that I ever need to change routers or even ISPs, all I have to do is use the same network SSID and password as I have now, and all devices will reconnect as before. I need this solution as I cannot access some of my smart devices to reset them, so I MUST retain the Tenda's SSID which they are all connected to, and change the Hub's SSID to match the Tenda's. What I also don't know is how to separate the 2.4 and 5GHz bands within the new connection setup. Once the whole Tenda/Hub3 thing is configured correctly and is up and running, how do I separate those bands? I cannot see anything in the MW3's settings that allows you to do this.

Thanks

[legacy1]

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@NotSoYoda wrote:
But is the '100mbps' you mention referring to the WiFi speed or cable connection speeds? 

Its the link speed of the Tenda that limits everything so you need a better router with 1Gb ports in order for wifi to go faster then 100Mb faster wifi has to go by ethernet so if its 100Mb your limited to 100Mb from wireless to wire link if the wire link is 1Gb then wifi can go upto 1Gb 

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@NotSoYoda wrote:

Any suggestions about how to implement the new settings in the right sequence? Others have suggested: First put Hub3/5 in Modem mode, then turn it off and remove all ethernet cables. Start up the Tenda mesh system. (NOTE: in the Tenda app Settings>>Internet settings>> there are only 4 options - PPPoE, DCHP, Static IP Address, Bridge. it's currently set to DHCP....should it be in Bridge?).

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you want DHCP not Bridge