Hub 4 recommendations please

[DoubtLess2022]

Hello.

I have a 1Gbps package and am very happy with the upload download speeds, and the wifi speeds.  There is ample capacity for the whole family.

Two bedrooms have worse wifi speeds, but still good enough and generally speeds are healthy speeds across the house. The main issue is wifi dropping out. 

I have got a VM white wifi pod, but actually the wifi seems more fragile now and can now drop out several times a day. Going in to the VM Connect app can often cause drop outs for everyone.  When the wifi goes, it goes for everyone for a few minutes, even if you're sat next to the hub.  Ethernet connected devices do not drop out at this time.

Conversely, there are daily disconnections from an ethernet connected playstation - only momentarily but enough to throw you from a game.  (Wifi is unaffected at this time).  

I've tried VM tech support and they suggested moving my hub to a more central location and rebooting it daily.  i.e they've not helped and they haven't listened to me - specifically, the connections are mostly great, but are unstable. Is there any point pursuing this with their tech team or just accept that it's really flaky unless I buy a separate router?

Can anyone please advise if a Hub 5 would help - (is there even any prospect of getting one?).  Alternatively, which routers and mesh systems are recommended for running the hub in modem-mode?

Thanks everyone.

[jbrennand]

Do this...

_________

Post up your Hub/network connection details and someone will check to see if there is a problem there.  In your browser’s URL box type in http://192.168.0.1 (or http://192.168.100.1 - if in modem mode) (DONT click these links) - and hit return. No need to log in - just click on the “Router Status” icon/text at bottom-middle (Hub3/4/5) or top/right (SH’s) - of the Login page.
Then… Navigate to these “data pages” and just copy/paste the normal “Formatted Text” (not images) 3 FULL sets of data onto here – 2 tables from the Downstream, 2 from the Upstream, & the Network Logs pages. Don't worry too much about the formatting it can be easily read & DON’T include personal data or MAC addresses - blank them out - if you copy/paste the data, the board software will do this for you (you may need to click the "submit" button again). If character limits are “exceeded” - just do two posts

Also, If you haven’t already, set up a free, secure and “offlsite” - “Broadband Quality Monitor” to continually monitor the state of your connection and record any true network dropouts , latency issues, packet drops, etc - it will thus allow you to differentiate between those and simple wifi dropouts. It does it 24/7/365 and it keeps a visual record of any/all of your network disconnections, useful data to have to match to the Network logs (in your Hub settings) and also in discussions with VM - note it will take a few hours to start seeing a sensible picture - post up the “link” to the “share live graph”. Click the lower link (Share Live Graph) then, click generate. Copy the text in the Direct Link box, beware, there may be more text than you can see. On here click the Link icon (2 links chain to the left of the camera icon) In the URL box paste the link you copied and then click OK
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality

[DoubtLess2022]

Hello John,

Thank you very much for replying about this and I appreciate your detailed steps for getting the logs.

I think I read a post from you on a different thread about BQM and I decided to set this up at the weekend.  The link is here:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/1f590f057edbe9ffef1dcfb0e6cc4a96dbbaab7d

I am no expert, but this seems to reinforce my feeling that the WAN connection is working well(?).  I don't know how to interpret the router logs below to corroborate that though!  Are the downstream channels for the WAN and the upstream for the ethernet and wifi?  I do not think I am displaying any personal information, but please can you say if I am?   

Thanks again for your help.  

Downstream

3.0 Downstream channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID

12	226750000	5.400002	38.983261	QAM256	12
10	210750000	5.599998	40.366287	QAM256	10
11	218750000	5.699997	40.946209	QAM256	11
13	234750000	4.699997	40.366287	QAM256	13
14	242750000	4.500000	38.983261	QAM256	14
15	250750000	5.300003	38.983261	QAM256	15
16	258750000	6.000000	40.366287	QAM256	16
17	266750000	6.000000	40.366287	QAM256	17
18	274750000	5.400002	40.366287	QAM256	18
19	282750000	5.099998	40.946209	QAM256	19
20	290750000	5.300003	40.366287	QAM256	20
21	298750000	5.800003	40.366287	QAM256	21
22	306750000	6.000000	40.366287	QAM256	22
23	314750000	5.800003	40.946209	QAM256	23
24	322750000	5.699997	40.946209	QAM256	24
25	330750000	6.099998	40.366287	QAM256	25
26	338750000	6.800003	40.946209	QAM256	26
27	346750000	6.900002	40.366287	QAM256	27
28	354750000	6.400002	40.366287	QAM256	28
29	362750000	6.000000	40.366287	QAM256	29
30	370750000	6.000000	40.366287	QAM256	30
31	378750000	6.300003	40.366287	QAM256	31
32	386750000	6.500000	40.946209	QAM256	32
33	394750000	6.000000	40.946209	QAM256	33
34	402750000	5.300003	40.946209	QAM256	34
35	410750000	5.500000	40.366287	QAM256	35
36	418750000	5.599998	40.366287	QAM256	36
37	522750000	6.300003	40.366287	QAM256	37
38	530750000	6.000000	40.366287	QAM256	38
39	538750000	5.400002	40.366287	QAM256	39
40	546750000	5.699997	40.366287	QAM256	40

3.0 Downstream channels

Channel Lock Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors

12	Locked	38.983261	0	0
10	Locked	40.366287	0	0
11	Locked	40.946209	0	0
13	Locked	40.366287	0	0
14	Locked	38.983261	0	0
15	Locked	38.983261	0	0
16	Locked	40.366287	0	0
17	Locked	40.366287	0	0
18	Locked	40.366287	0	0
19	Locked	40.946209	0	0
20	Locked	40.366287	0	0
21	Locked	40.366287	0	0
22	Locked	40.366287	0	0
23	Locked	40.946209	0	0
24	Locked	40.946209	0	0
25	Locked	40.366287	0	0
26	Locked	40.946209	0	0
27	Locked	40.366287	0	0
28	Locked	40.366287	0	0
29	Locked	40.366287	0	0
30	Locked	40.366287	0	0
31	Locked	40.366287	0	0
32	Locked	40.946209	0	0
33	Locked	40.946209	0	0
34	Locked	40.946209	0	0
35	Locked	40.366287	0	0
36	Locked	40.366287	0	0
37	Locked	40.366287	0	0
38	Locked	40.366287	0	0
39	Locked	40.366287	0	0
40	Locked	40.366287	0	0

3.1 Downstream channels

Channel Channel Width (MHz) FFT Type Number of Active Subcarriers Modulation (Active Profile) First Active Subcarrier (Hz)

41

94

4K

1800

QAM4096

424

3.1 Downstream channels

Channel ID Lock Status RxMER Data (dB) PLC Power (dBmV) Correcteds (Active Profile) Uncorrectables (Active Profile)

41

Locked

42

3.7

3905974296

3

 

<continued>

[DoubtLess2022]

Upstream

3.0 Upstream channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID

1	43100000	41.770599	5120 KSym/sec	64QAM	2
2	36600000	41.520599	5120 KSym/sec	64QAM	3
3	30100000	40.770599	5120 KSym/sec	64QAM	4
4	49600000	42.270599	5120 KSym/sec	64QAM	1
5	23600000	40.520599	5120 KSym/sec	64QAM	9

3.0 Upstream channels

Channel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts

1	US_TYPE_ATDMA	0	0	0	0
2	US_TYPE_ATDMA	0	0	0	0
3	US_TYPE_ATDMA	0	0	0	0
4	US_TYPE_ATDMA	0	0	0	0
5	US_TYPE_ATDMA	0	0	0	0

Network Log

Network Log

Time Priority Description

Sun Dec	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov 30	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov 30	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov 28	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Nov 26	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Nov 25	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov 23	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov 21	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon Nov 20	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Nov 18	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov 16	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov 16	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov 16	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx0;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov 14	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov 14	4	Missing Mandatory MDD TLV on primary DS Channel;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov 14	3	Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov 14	5	Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov 14	3	SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon Nov 13	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Nov 11	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Nov 11	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov	6	CMSTATUS:US_Diplexer_Mode_Change: (TLV-9) , (5-85) ;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov	6	SW download Successful - Via NMS
Tue Nov	6	SW Download INIT - Via NMS
Sun Nov	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Nov	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Nov	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Fri Nov	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Oct 31	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Oct 29	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Oct 28	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Wed Oct 25	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Wed Oct 25	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Oct 22	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Oct 22	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Oct 22	4	DHCP RENEW sent - No response for IPv4;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Wed Oct 18	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;

[jbrennand]

Connection looks fine (to me) - so you need to sort the wifi out.  Either with the VM Pods or by sorting it out yourself

[DoubtLess2022]

Thank you for casting an eye over this for me.  I will pursue this with VM support.  I removed the white Wifi Pod because it made the wifi less stable. On balance, I think it is most likely an issue with the router, on the basis of the frequency of occurrence and the fact that I shouldn't go from from 400+mbps to crashed wifi without doing anything. Same room as router and no sources of interference. (Also, the fact the router admin page won't even load any more despite accepting my password).

I was looking at the TPLink Mesh and Zyxel router that you and another member mentioned. I still think the router needs replacing, preferably for a 5, but I'd even take a 4 because I'm not even confident it will work reliably in modem mode.

Thank you so much for your advice and support, John, you've been a great help.

Kind regards 

[jbrennand]

There is little evidence for a router issue other than its poor control of wifi.

All VM Hubs (except the 5x) work well in modem mode - I have been in modem mode since 2003 😎

You dont need the Zyxel if you go for the Deco system - that will do all you need - all the routing and wifi issues of the Hub are circumvented by better quality equipment.  You cant expect a mass produced (to a price) Hub to compete on quality with a device that costs ~x5 more to produce.  That said,  the Hub does do its job for the majority of VM's BB customers - and we only see the exceptions on here.

[DoubtLess2022]

Yes,  I was meaning the device's reliability wrt to wifi rather than its ability to route. It did used to be fine over the last 18 months or so, and only in the last few months has this become a recurrent issue. I will try VM again,  but I don't expect to come closer to a resolution than you have explained. Ultimately, I think I will go for the TP-Link device for a permanent fix.

Thank you.

[DoubtLess2022]

Purely by way of recording an update on the issue, wifi was down again today. 

Unfortunately my son was at home on his own and found he was unable to connect to anything. (At least he wasn't working from home today). He didn't know what to do and it took a couple of hours til I saw his text. I told him to reboot the router and all was well again.

More evidence that the wifi from the router is flaky. Will try to contact VM tomorrow if home in time.

[89537kay3]

I'd put money on the router being faulty. The line is clearly fine and with the long loading / loss of the router login page and constant WiFi drop outs, it points to the router. Do you know if the WiFi totally turns off, or do devices just disconnect? Most phones will automatically switch from WiFi to mobile internet if the connection is bad, so i wonder if it's actually the hub "rebooting" the WiFi so to speak (and so it goes totally down / you can't scan for it) or if it stays up but just kicks devices off.

If it's just kicking devices off, that could be all sorts of issues. The router, interfearence, end devices, bad actor at play, all sorts. If the WiFi actually drops out / turns off then i'd put a healthy amount of money on it being a fault with the router.

[DoubtLess2022]

Hello 89537kay3.  Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and I appreciate your technical view of the logs. 

When I lose the wifi, all wireless devices drop off simultaneously across the house, and that is for the 2.4 and 5 Ghz connections. I can't manually reconnect during this time.  All wireless devices come back around the same time - a couple of minutes later, but there are no hints from the Hub4's lights that anything has occurred.  The wired connections remain on even while the wifi drops out.

I spoke to the VM Technical Support team this evening and asked if they would replace the hub.  Firstly, they want me to perform a factory reset.  That's fine and I can deal with a bit of re-configuration.  It sounds like I am on the pathway to a solution, and they will send an engineer if the reset doesn't resolve it.

It was really helpful to refer to JBrennand's and your comments during the conversation with VM Support.

Many thanks