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Hub 4 recommendations please

DoubtLess2022
On our wavelength

Hello.

I have a 1Gbps package and am very happy with the upload download speeds, and the wifi speeds.  There is ample capacity for the whole family.

Two bedrooms have worse wifi speeds, but still good enough and generally speeds are healthy speeds across the house. The main issue is wifi dropping out. 

I have got a VM white wifi pod, but actually the wifi seems more fragile now and can now drop out several times a day. Going in to the VM Connect app can often cause drop outs for everyone.  When the wifi goes, it goes for everyone for a few minutes, even if you're sat next to the hub.  Ethernet connected devices do not drop out at this time.

Conversely, there are daily disconnections from an ethernet connected playstation - only momentarily but enough to throw you from a game.  (Wifi is unaffected at this time).  

I've tried VM tech support and they suggested moving my hub to a more central location and rebooting it daily.  i.e they've not helped and they haven't listened to me - specifically, the connections are mostly great, but are unstable. Is there any point pursuing this with their tech team or just accept that it's really flaky unless I buy a separate router?

Can anyone please advise if a Hub 5 would help - (is there even any prospect of getting one?).  Alternatively, which routers and mesh systems are recommended for running the hub in modem-mode?

Thanks everyone.

37 REPLIES 37

jbrennand
Very Insightful Person
Very Insightful Person

Do this...

_________

Post up your Hub/network connection details and someone will check to see if there is a problem there.  In your browser’s URL box type in http://192.168.0.1 (or http://192.168.100.1 - if in modem mode) (DONT click these links) - and hit return. No need to log in - just click on the “Router Status” icon/text at bottom-middle (Hub3/4/5) or top/right (SH’s) - of the Login page.
Then… Navigate to these “data pages” and just copy/paste the normal “Formatted Text” (not images) 3 FULL sets of data onto here – 2 tables from the Downstream, 2 from the Upstream, & the Network Logs pages. Don't worry too much about the formatting it can be easily read & DON’T include personal data or MAC addresses - blank them out - if you copy/paste the data, the board software will do this for you (you may need to click the "submit" button again). If character limits are “exceeded” - just do two posts

Also, If you haven’t already, set up a free, secure and “offlsite” - “Broadband Quality Monitor” to continually monitor the state of your connection and record any true network dropouts , latency issues, packet drops, etc - it will thus allow you to differentiate between those and simple wifi dropouts. It does it 24/7/365 and it keeps a visual record of any/all of your network disconnections, useful data to have to match to the Network logs (in your Hub settings) and also in discussions with VM - note it will take a few hours to start seeing a sensible picture - post up the “link” to the “share live graph”. Click the lower link (Share Live Graph) then, click generate. Copy the text in the Direct Link box, beware, there may be more text than you can see. On here click the Link icon (2 links chain to the left of the camera icon) In the URL box paste the link you copied and then click OK
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality


--------------------
John
--------------------

I do not work for VM. My services: HD TV on VIP (+ Sky Sports & Movies & BT sport), x3 V6 boxes (1 wired, 2 on WiFi) Hub5 in modem mode with Apple Airport Extreme Router +2 Airport Express's & TP-Link Archer C64 WAP. On Volt 350Mbps, Talk Anytime Phone, x2 Mobile SIM only iPhones.

DoubtLess2022
On our wavelength

Hello John,

Thank you very much for replying about this and I appreciate your detailed steps for getting the logs.

I think I read a post from you on a different thread about BQM and I decided to set this up at the weekend.  The link is here:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/1f590f057edbe9ffef1dcfb0e6cc4a96dbbaab7d

I am no expert, but this seems to reinforce my feeling that the WAN connection is working well(?).  I don't know how to interpret the router logs below to corroborate that though!  Are the downstream channels for the WAN and the upstream for the ethernet and wifi?  I do not think I am displaying any personal information, but please can you say if I am?   

Thanks again for your help.  

Downstream

3.0 Downstream channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID

122267500005.40000238.983261QAM25612
102107500005.59999840.366287QAM25610
112187500005.69999740.946209QAM25611
132347500004.69999740.366287QAM25613
142427500004.50000038.983261QAM25614
152507500005.30000338.983261QAM25615
162587500006.00000040.366287QAM25616
172667500006.00000040.366287QAM25617
182747500005.40000240.366287QAM25618
192827500005.09999840.946209QAM25619
202907500005.30000340.366287QAM25620
212987500005.80000340.366287QAM25621
223067500006.00000040.366287QAM25622
233147500005.80000340.946209QAM25623
243227500005.69999740.946209QAM25624
253307500006.09999840.366287QAM25625
263387500006.80000340.946209QAM25626
273467500006.90000240.366287QAM25627
283547500006.40000240.366287QAM25628
293627500006.00000040.366287QAM25629
303707500006.00000040.366287QAM25630
313787500006.30000340.366287QAM25631
323867500006.50000040.946209QAM25632
333947500006.00000040.946209QAM25633
344027500005.30000340.946209QAM25634
354107500005.50000040.366287QAM25635
364187500005.59999840.366287QAM25636
375227500006.30000340.366287QAM25637
385307500006.00000040.366287QAM25638
395387500005.40000240.366287QAM25639
405467500005.69999740.366287QAM25640

3.0 Downstream channels

Channel Lock Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors

12Locked38.98326100
10Locked40.36628700
11Locked40.94620900
13Locked40.36628700
14Locked38.98326100
15Locked38.98326100
16Locked40.36628700
17Locked40.36628700
18Locked40.36628700
19Locked40.94620900
20Locked40.36628700
21Locked40.36628700
22Locked40.36628700
23Locked40.94620900
24Locked40.94620900
25Locked40.36628700
26Locked40.94620900
27Locked40.36628700
28Locked40.36628700
29Locked40.36628700
30Locked40.36628700
31Locked40.36628700
32Locked40.94620900
33Locked40.94620900
34Locked40.94620900
35Locked40.36628700
36Locked40.36628700
37Locked40.36628700
38Locked40.36628700
39Locked40.36628700
40Locked40.36628700

 

3.1 Downstream channels

Channel Channel Width (MHz) FFT Type Number of Active Subcarriers Modulation (Active Profile) First Active Subcarrier (Hz)

41944K1800QAM4096424

3.1 Downstream channels

Channel ID Lock Status RxMER Data (dB) PLC Power (dBmV) Correcteds (Active Profile) Uncorrectables (Active Profile)

41Locked423.739059742963

 

<continued>

 

DoubtLess2022
On our wavelength

Upstream

3.0 Upstream channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID

14310000041.7705995120 KSym/sec64QAM2
23660000041.5205995120 KSym/sec64QAM3
33010000040.7705995120 KSym/sec64QAM4
44960000042.2705995120 KSym/sec64QAM1
52360000040.5205995120 KSym/sec64QAM9

 

3.0 Upstream channels

Channel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts

1US_TYPE_ATDMA0000
2US_TYPE_ATDMA0000
3US_TYPE_ATDMA0000
4US_TYPE_ATDMA0000
5US_TYPE_ATDMA0000

 

Network Log

Network Log

Time Priority Description

Sun Dec
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov
30
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov
30
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov
28
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Nov
26
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Nov
25
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov
23
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov
21
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon Nov
20
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Nov
18
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov
16
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov
16
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov
16
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx0;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov
14
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov
14
4Missing Mandatory MDD TLV on primary DS Channel;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov
14
3Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov
14
5Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov
14
3SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon Nov
13
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Nov
11
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Nov
11
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Nov
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov
6CMSTATUS:US_Diplexer_Mode_Change: (TLV-9) , (5-85) ;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Nov
6SW download Successful - Via NMS
Tue Nov
6SW Download INIT - Via NMS
Sun Nov
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Nov
5MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu Jan
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Nov
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Fri Nov
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue Oct
31
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Oct
29
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat Oct
28
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Wed Oct
25
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Wed Oct
25
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Oct
22
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Oct
22
4DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun Oct
22
4DHCP RENEW sent - No response for IPv4;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Wed Oct
18
3No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;

 

 

jbrennand
Very Insightful Person
Very Insightful Person

Connection looks fine (to me) - so you need to sort the wifi out.  Either with the VM Pods or by sorting it out yourself


--------------------
John
--------------------

I do not work for VM. My services: HD TV on VIP (+ Sky Sports & Movies & BT sport), x3 V6 boxes (1 wired, 2 on WiFi) Hub5 in modem mode with Apple Airport Extreme Router +2 Airport Express's & TP-Link Archer C64 WAP. On Volt 350Mbps, Talk Anytime Phone, x2 Mobile SIM only iPhones.

DoubtLess2022
On our wavelength

Thank you for casting an eye over this for me.  I will pursue this with VM support.  I removed the white Wifi Pod because it made the wifi less stable. On balance, I think it is most likely an issue with the router, on the basis of the frequency of occurrence and the fact that I shouldn't go from from 400+mbps to crashed wifi without doing anything. Same room as router and no sources of interference. (Also, the fact the router admin page won't even load any more despite accepting my password).

I was looking at the TPLink Mesh and Zyxel router that you and another member mentioned. I still think the router needs replacing, preferably for a 5, but I'd even take a 4 because I'm not even confident it will work reliably in modem mode.

Thank you so much for your advice and support, John, you've been a great help.

Kind regards 

jbrennand
Very Insightful Person
Very Insightful Person

There is little evidence for a router issue other than its poor control of wifi.

All VM Hubs (except the 5x) work well in modem mode - I have been in modem mode since 2003 😎

You dont need the Zyxel if you go for the Deco system - that will do all you need - all the routing and wifi issues of the Hub are circumvented by better quality equipment.  You cant expect a mass produced (to a price) Hub to compete on quality with a device that costs ~x5 more to produce.  That said,  the Hub does do its job for the majority of VM's BB customers - and we only see the exceptions on here.


--------------------
John
--------------------

I do not work for VM. My services: HD TV on VIP (+ Sky Sports & Movies & BT sport), x3 V6 boxes (1 wired, 2 on WiFi) Hub5 in modem mode with Apple Airport Extreme Router +2 Airport Express's & TP-Link Archer C64 WAP. On Volt 350Mbps, Talk Anytime Phone, x2 Mobile SIM only iPhones.

DoubtLess2022
On our wavelength

Yes,  I was meaning the device's reliability wrt to wifi rather than its ability to route. It did used to be fine over the last 18 months or so, and only in the last few months has this become a recurrent issue. I will try VM again,  but I don't expect to come closer to a resolution than you have explained. Ultimately, I think I will go for the TP-Link device for a permanent fix.

Thank you.

 

Purely by way of recording an update on the issue, wifi was down again today. 

Unfortunately my son was at home on his own and found he was unable to connect to anything. (At least he wasn't working from home today). He didn't know what to do and it took a couple of hours til I saw his text. I told him to reboot the router and all was well again.

More evidence that the wifi from the router is flaky. Will try to contact VM tomorrow if home in time.

89537kay3
Dialled in

I'd put money on the router being faulty. The line is clearly fine and with the long loading / loss of the router login page and constant WiFi drop outs, it points to the router. Do you know if the WiFi totally turns off, or do devices just disconnect? Most phones will automatically switch from WiFi to mobile internet if the connection is bad, so i wonder if it's actually the hub "rebooting" the WiFi so to speak (and so it goes totally down / you can't scan for it) or if it stays up but just kicks devices off.

If it's just kicking devices off, that could be all sorts of issues. The router, interfearence, end devices, bad actor at play, all sorts. If the WiFi actually drops out / turns off then i'd put a healthy amount of money on it being a fault with the router.

I do not work for VM. Qualified IT Technician. Virgin Volt Bundle - 1Gig, Hub 5 Modem Mode & ASUS GT-AXE16000, 2x Tivo V6's. VM customer for over 6 years.

Hello 89537kay3.  Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and I appreciate your technical view of the logs. 

When I lose the wifi, all wireless devices drop off simultaneously across the house, and that is for the 2.4 and 5 Ghz connections. I can't manually reconnect during this time.  All wireless devices come back around the same time - a couple of minutes later, but there are no hints from the Hub4's lights that anything has occurred.  The wired connections remain on even while the wifi drops out.

I spoke to the VM Technical Support team this evening and asked if they would replace the hub.  Firstly, they want me to perform a factory reset.  That's fine and I can deal with a bit of re-configuration.  It sounds like I am on the pathway to a solution, and they will send an engineer if the reset doesn't resolve it.

It was really helpful to refer to JBrennand's and your comments during the conversation with VM Support.

Many thanks