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andrewducker
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Message 621 of 1,230
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

Virgin have given a presentation at the IPV6 Transition Workshop: https://www.ipv6.org.uk/2018/10/26/ipv6-transition-workshop-sep-2018/

In it they talk about implementation decisions for DS-Lite.  So it looks very-much like that's the direction they're taking.

Morgaine
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Message 622 of 1,230
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

Hi @andrewducker, and thanks. 🙂

I have automated my data collection and post-processing at last (I was scraping it manually from APNIC for more than a year, quite a lot of work), but alas the processed data is all purely internal for now.  Maybe I'll get enthused enough by Virgin's release of a public IPv6 service to do something more!  Well, one can dream ... 😛

Yes, very nice to see EE moving boldly into the IPv6 mobile future.  For an IPv6 enthusiast, it makes the choice of mobile provider pretty easy! 🙂

Thanks for the link to IPV6 Transition Workshop --- I'll take a look at that now.

"If it only does IPv4, it is broken." -- George Michaelson, APNIC.
Anonymous
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Message 623 of 1,230
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

Thanks for the pointer @andrewducker.

Makes for interesting reading. Seems like DS-Lite is in our future. Also, looking at the other 4-6 transition technologies discussed it looks like Sky are at least considering MAP-T. IPv4 on domestic broadband's days may be numbered.

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impromptu
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Message 624 of 1,230
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

The writing has been on the wall for DS-Lite for a while, so that bit isn't much of a surprise.

Reading the presentation, I'm trying to understand how the transition to DS-Lite will work.  In particular, the need for the router to do 4-in-6 encapsulation as far as VM's edge routers (the router running the B4 part of AFTR).  That's fine on VM's own superhubs acting as routers, but how does it work for those with their own?  If my own router doesn't support B4, what will VM do?

  1. Tell me to buy a new router or they cut me off / force me to use the VM router
  2. Man-in-the-middle in the modem (which isn't plain modem any more), or in the CMTS
  3. Just keep me IPv4 only, until I replace my router (could be a decade)
  4. Issue me with an IPv6 address as well as my existing IPv4 (full dual-stack), and not forcing 4-in-6 tunnelling unless the router supports that

How does DS-Lite handle this case on other ISPs?  Would #3 or #4 be hacks for users in the know to retain an IPv4 address?  Given that most users are probably oblivious, VM can likely recycle 95% of their IPv4 addresses which keeps the bean counters happy.

VMCopperUser
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Message 625 of 1,230
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

That's a worrying question.

One would assume that the "Modem Side" of the WhateverHubX would contain the B4 component and then just forward it on.

 So It really should be a matter of the user doing nothing, and if their router supports IPv6 then it just shows up one day, and your Ipv4 address changes but your non the wiser to it now being 4to6.

<==FibreOptic(lol)==> Hub(Modem+B4)<Solder>Hub(Router(Ipv6+Ipv4(Nat)) <--WiFi/Ethernet--> (Your network)
<==FibreOptic(lol)==> Hub(Modem+B4) <--Ethernet--> YourRouter(Ipv6+Ipv4(Nat)) <--WiFi/Ethernet--> (Your network)

No?

 

 

 

----
I do not work for VM, but I would. It is just a Job.
Most things I say I make up and sometimes it's useful, don't be mean if it's wrong.
I would also make websites for them, because the job never seems to require the website to work.
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Dagger2
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Message 626 of 1,230
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

My understanding is that VM Ireland approaches this by not letting you turn bridge mode on.

If they do let you use your own router, then it'll need to support 464xlat. If it doesn't, then your service will be v6 only with no v4 access.

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Morgaine
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Message 627 of 1,230
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

One thing seems fairly certain. That whatever kind of IPv4 over IPv6 system VM decides to give us (as that seems to be their plan), it's never going to be as good as the native IPv6 provisioned directly to our CPEs.  I expect that this will lead to many more users becoming IPv6 activists and beating on the doors of stuck-in-the-mud IPv4-only sites that are ignoring the winds of change. Start dusting off your hammers, if you haven't already. 😛 🙂

I know that there will be some pain involved in this evolution, but many of those IPv4-only dinosaurs won't budge until forcibly shown the asteroid of their demise. Some still won't move of course, despite our very strong encouragement, and when that is the case then I'm prepared to stop using them. There are always alternatives.

I know that some people will have the opposite view, directing their ire at Virgin Media or Liberty Global rather than at IPv4-only services, and indeed there is some merit in that view.  But note that by applying negative feedback to VM rather than to the IPv4-only services, you're merely delaying the inevitable.  Those sites will still have to extend their service to IPv6 one day, or lose your patronage eventually, or die.  It's just a matter of timing.

"If it only does IPv4, it is broken." -- George Michaelson, APNIC.
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Anonymous
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Message 628 of 1,230
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

It'd be disappointing if VM disable modem-mode going forwards. I can see no new reason for them to do so. It would certainly give me cause to go hunting for a new ISP if they did.

Now the writing on the wall is close enough for me to read (Smiley Happy) I've done some digging. OpenWRT has support for DS-Lite provided you install the "ds-lite" package. All that is required is the address for the AFTR either as an IPv6 address or AAAA DNS address. Once configured it sets up an ipip6 tunnel and routes IPv4 traffic down it. All pretty straight forward and pretty much the inverse of the IPv6-in-IPv4 tunnel I've been running with Hurricane Electric for the past 9 years.

Getting hold of the correct AFTR address doesn't seem like rocket science even if VM are coy about publishing it.

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impromptu
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Message 629 of 1,230
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

I could imagine a diktat that domestic users must use their Superhub as router or else, but I can't see this happening with business users. They'll likely have complicated routers set up by IT staff for their business needs (VPN, etc), and I can't imagine VM would say 'bin your Cisco, you have to use our $100 Superhub'.  Or would they go fully dual-stack for business customers?

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Optimist1
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Message 630 of 1,230
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

Can existing Superhubs be upgraded with new firmware and still be OK? (I have a VMDG480, hardware version 2.00).
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