2gig for RoFG and DOCSIS 3.1

[TeddyTRK]

Hello,

To avoid confusion this is not a rant or speculation on when/if gig2 comes to RoFG and DOCSIS 3.1 however I do have some questions.

I saw on the VM Reddit page stating they will NOT be bringing gig 2 to RoFG and DOCSIS 3.1, does anyone have any idea on why not? Since both support 2gig, and both Symmetrical as well (however I understand this would be expensive to do so on the DOCSIS 3.1 version)

Also, if this is the case and gig2 doesn't come to RoFG and DOCSIS 3.1, what's the point in the 2.5gbps port on the Hub 5? 

Feel as if VM should have waited before activating any 2gig speeds until they could at least release it over their entire network tbh, but I'm not into marketing, not advertising ect guess it's just to put their name next to "UKs biggest and fastest broadband company!" 

[Sephiroth]

I’m pretty sure it’s because VM will have everyone on XGS-PON within a couple of years.  If you have FTTP, the switch to a different transmission protocol is a matter of shoving a cable into another router at their end and providing you with a Hub 5x or whatever is their direct fibre modem of the day.

I suspect that DOCSIS is in terminal decline - though it’ll take a couple of years depending on how long the FTTP rollout takes.  The competition isn’t standing still so VM have to up their game.

[Client62]

We have RFoG and I'm not expecting to see 2Gb/s services offered until the RFoG network is used as the stepping stone to XGS-PON.  

Even on XGS-PON 2GB/s and/or symmetric appears to have limited coverage, just enough to claim the service exists by marketing teams.

CATV and RFoG could offer better speeds in a pure 3.1 DOCSIS environment, but what we have is 30+ downstream and 4 to 6 upstream channels of 3.0 DOCSIS on the line as well as at most 2x 3.1 DOCSIS  channels for CATV connections. 3.0 DOCSIS is needed for all the Hub 3 and earlier VM Hubs in the field.

For us with RFoG we lack the 3.1 DOCSIS upstream channel making symmetric not possible, even 6 upstream 3.0 DOCSIS channels bonded totals about 162Mb/s as a link rate & we have to deduct network overheads.

Looking at the Hub 5, the 1Gb/s service is sold as 1130Mb/s and is provisioned a little above this, the max for a 1Gb/s port is about 930 Mb/s, so the next speed step up is 2.5Gb/s which can easily pass 1130Mb/s on one network port.

For XGS-PON the Hub 5x has one 10Gb/s port, perhaps 5Gb/s will be offered at some point and by then the cries of I'm only getting 50 Mb/s on my Kindle speed test will be even more common.

[Client62]

The comment about the RFoG transition are worth a moment. 

Back in 2017, RFoG was delivered to us as an ONT in an external OMNI Box + in our case about 8 meters of coax to the VM Hub. The transition for us would be the ONT and 8m of coax are replaced with an optical coupler and 8 meters of fibre to reach to a Hub 5x.

As a realization of the future came, things changed. More recently the RFoG fibre comes through the wall and into the home connecting to an interior wall mounted ONT, making the transition to Hub 5x much simpler.

[nodrogd]

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@TeddyTRK wrote:

Hello,

To avoid confusion this is not a rant or speculation on when/if gig2 comes to RoFG and DOCSIS 3.1 however I do have some questions.

I saw on the VM Reddit page stating they will NOT be bringing gig 2 to RoFG and DOCSIS 3.1, does anyone have any idea on why not? Since both support 2gig, and both Symmetrical as well (however I understand this would be expensive to do so on the DOCSIS version)

Also, if this is the case and gig2 doesn't come to RoFG and DOCSIS 3.1, what's the point in the 2.5gbps port on the Hub 5? 

Feel as if VM should have waited before activating any 2gig speeds until they could at least release it over their entire network tbh, but I'm not into marketing, not advertising ect guess it's just to put their name next to "UKs biggest and fastest broadband company!" 

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VM has use of a finite amount of Radio Frequency spectrum. This has to accommodate Broadband services & broadcast Cable TV. The only way to effectively increase speeds & offer symmetrical services beyond 1Gig on DOCSIS kit is to either:

1) Upgrade all their existing infrastructure to DOCSIS 4. DOCSIS 3.1 upload is capped at 1Gig upload, so cannot offer symmetrical above this speed.

2) Remove all the Cable TV services & repurpose the spectrum for broadband.

1 is very expensive. It's cheaper to migrate everyone to XGS-PON, which can be used outside the current cable franchise areas as well a inside.

2 requires dealing with the 4 million people currently using broadcast TV. Where do they go? You can't just wholesale switch it off. Virgin Stream is the only kit that works on XGS-PON, so a staged migration has to take place anyway. There is also a commitment to OFCOM to retain the TV services in their current form while any transition is made away from "Cable" type services.

[Roger_Gooner]

VM is flat out installing the fibre and cabinets for XGS-PON, all due for completion at the end of 2028. Starting this year I expect commencement of migration to XGS-PON with an end-date of around 2040. I doubt whether VM has the bandwidth, awful pun intended, to upgrade the legacy network to 2Gbps which it is desperate to get rid of.

[unisoft]

The HFC network (ignoring RFoG) can do 2gbps and up to 220mbps max upload. Whether VM would offer that upload is unknown, they certainly can't do symmetric with DVB-C services still running on HFC. AFAIK, VM still intend to do the 2gbps on HFC as a lot of the work was done for prep for higher upload on Gig1 so barring some areas that had the upstream limitation.... 2028 is still a way off and VM still have not done large swathes of their HFC network upgrades under Project Mustang yet.

[IPFreely]

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Reading your post unisoft you've finally made me realise why another poster wrongly thought more spectrum would need to be given over to DVB-C to run Gig2 over DoCSIS.

2.2 down, 220 up doable on HFC but needs as many cable modems moved from Hub 3 or earlier to Hub 4 or 5 regardless of tier. I know it was under discussion whether to wait for 220 up or to run with a lower number. 220 up on RFoG forget about it: a lower upload speed, difficult to justify in press releases, or XGSPON.

XGSPON via Project Mustang should be available in the next couple of months but no-one is getting migrated over for a long while yet. It being available and VMO2 forcibly moving people onto it are very different things, product set isn't 1:1. VoIP over the 5x would be super useful for that, could leave coax in place for TV for now.

[bodgeup]

XGS-PON rollout is terrible, I assume i will get it sometime 2030 lol.  but I agree hub4 has 32 docsis downstream channels so why cant they do the same with upstream still on docsis 3. surely it would be a workaround solution till XGS-PON is rolled out completely at this point delay after delay after delay, this is why im hunting for an alternative ispo with sycronous as 104mbps upload is a joke lol