IPv6 support on Virgin media
Does anyone know whether (and if so when) Virgin plan to implement IPv6 on its network?
Forum Discussion
Presumably you're seeing router advertisements as others have. I've never seen those (it seems to be regional) so never been able to try any connectivity. The default route would be the link local that those come from.
You could try sending a ping to ff02::2 over that interface and see what replies.
I'm not seeing this either. I've got a simple bridge rule for all IPv6 frames and I can't solicit any RA from any device. Either it isn't everywhere, or else it is strongly filtered in the fashion of DHCPv4 to the first and I haven't noticed. Oh, well. Hopefully someone else will enjoy better luck. I'll leave the bridge there, in case something interesting happens.
- If I enable IPv6 on the WAN connection of my security gateway then I do see the RAs, but since everything else is currently missing I haven't bothered to try to make anything work. My HE 6in4 tunnel works very well and I get almost native speed from it, so I'm going to stick with that until/if VM properly deploys IPv6. Since I am constrained to using modem mode I do hope that when/if they do roll it out they don't deploy DS Lite or any such nonsense.
Fair enough.
FWIW my RAX200, used as a WAP, does have DS-Lite (and MAP-E, and others). While I certainly empathise with wanting the very best, it's possible that your choice of box may have (or can have added) DS-Lite support. I'm personally less agitated by the idea of going behind a V4 NAT, but that's probably just me.
Honestly i think it should be an option, by default you get CGNAT with DS-Lite but you can request to get full dual stack V4 and V6 as for me i need to have a public V4 address for mainly plex along with other things i port forward but most user's wouldnt need to do that, im just a nerd lmao. I know there's some ISPs that have default DS-Lite and have the option to go full dual stack
Honestly, you aren't missing much if you don't see Router Advertisements on the WAN side, based on what is known it's been lurking for a while and you don't have any real ability to use it properly. You can technically assign yourself an IPv6 address within the routed prefix you see (not the managed network one), but honesty it's not really useful, it works but you literally just have a single IPv6 address, no prefix delegation through DHCPv6 etc, it's not really meant to be used. You could go really creative and start trying to essentially force the prefix to be announced with your own stuff, but realistically, it's not meant to be used so there's really no point. The only real interesting point is there is in fact a working IPv6 network "live" in some places, but again totally useless for using it practically really, but one of those "cool, I did a thing" scenarios.
It is quite possible what is visible is part of the DS-Lite implementation, which goes back to 2018.
From conversations back in 2020, it suggested that Liberty Global had basically got an IPv6 network ready and the evidence that's currently live on the WAN side suggests it might still be silently running in the background but even they had issues convincing people (likely higher management and numbers people) within Virgin Media to allow them to deploy it and it seems that still may be the case. So when Liberty Global network engineers can't get sign off to turn it on, there's really no hope for customers having a voice on it, but we carry on trying anyway.
I'd hope due to the lengthy delay and no change since the 2018 DS Lite trials they are at least considering or have tested other options outside of it. Maybe DS-Lite flagged various issues that made them rethink, dual stack seems safer overall despite maintaining two protocols, if the service doesn't support IPv6, it will just use IPv4, if the service supports IPv6, it will use IPv6, great. Given Virgin Media has been on legacy IPv4 ages, maybe users were tied to IPv4 port forwarding (which is possible with the provided CPEs) so they decided not to, complete speculation of course, but you'd think with evidence of an IPv6 network present, it would of been turned on by now, given it's now been 4 years since the IPv6 trials.
Ireland is under the DS Lite by default configuration (certainly for new customers, but older many not have it), however there's a couple of important differences compared to the UK
1. The Ireland operation was formerly UPC before Virgin Media
2. The network from the merger is likely different
3. The network is significantly smaller than the customer base of the UK and therefore would perhaps have more issues with IPv4 exhaustion. You can however go back to IPv4 only, so clearly there is some IPv4 space, but perhaps not enough to cover every single customer in Ireland.The other alternative is a proper dual stack deployment moves to VM Business and DS-Lite goes to residential. That would be acceptable for power users or enthusiasts, it would allow consistency of deployments across both types and if someone really hated that, they could just stay in IPv4 only mode or change provider if it's really not workable (if you have Openreach or an alt net available in your area of course). DS Lite likely works fine in most casual uses, but those that know or have more demanding needs it's just hassle waiting to happen.
I think VM/ Liberty Global actually listened. DS Lite is the worse of all options and walked away before customers did.
A true dual stack or V4 only and continued use of a HE tunnel.
Many of my remote PoPs are Ipv4 and then RFC1914 with NAT. CGNAT will always be a game ender
Timwilky wrote:I think VM/ Liberty Global actually listened. DS Lite is the worse of all options and walked away before customers did.
A true dual stack or V4 only and continued use of a HE tunnel.
Many of my remote PoPs are Ipv4 and then RFC1914 with NAT. CGNAT will always be a game ender
Even if they have enough IPv4 to spread around now they will run out at some point.
CGNat on the IPv4 side will become a must-have at some point.
I don't keep track with all of the transition options out there, but when it comes to carrier IPv4 depletion then DS-Lite seems to me to be a good option. Horrible for me as I have IPv4 only hardware that connects to IPv4 only services (I know there's 4to6 options better than DS-Lite, but they don't allow "inbound").
I do not like DS-Lite, as they have neglected the migration (and let me stres, NEGLECTED) then there's obviously less wiggle room for other options. Show me something better if you can see it, I would be interested to know if something exist.
Timwilky wrote:I think VM/ Liberty Global actually listened. DS Lite is the worse of all options and walked away before customers did.
A true dual stack or V4 only and continued use of a HE tunnel.
Many of my remote PoPs are Ipv4 and then RFC1914 with NAT. CGNAT will always be a game ender
Maybe. A more recent quote from a spokesperson when asked about IPv6 by ISPreview, hinted that they have or had been testing more than one deployment but there's no details around it. To my knowledge there has been no further public test of IPv6 outside of the DS-Lite one in 2018, anything new has been internal or not large enough to be news worthy. I don't think any APNIC stats or IPv6 usage stats by AS number indicate anything happening either. So it's basically a cold case until we find out anything else I think.
I still think Openreach going live in my area is a safer bet for getting IPv6. The CBTs showed up on the pole and in pavement chambers last week, hoping it's not long until they go live so an ONT can be ordered!
This is what I see for IPv6
I'm on the edge of the world their is no beyond!
VMCopperUser wrote:
Timwilky wrote:I think VM/ Liberty Global actually listened. DS Lite is the worse of all options and walked away before customers did.
A true dual stack or V4 only and continued use of a HE tunnel.
Many of my remote PoPs are Ipv4 and then RFC1914 with NAT. CGNAT will always be a game ender
Even if they have enough IPv4 to spread around now they will run out at some point.
CGNat on the IPv4 side will become a must-have at some point.
I don't keep track with all of the transition options out there, but when it comes to carrier IPv4 depletion then DS-Lite seems to me to be a good option. Horrible for me as I have IPv4 only hardware that connects to IPv4 only services (I know there's 4to6 options better than DS-Lite, but they don't allow "inbound").
I do not like DS-Lite, as they have neglected the migration (and let me stres, NEGLECTED) then there's obviously less wiggle room for other options. Show me something better if you can see it, I would be interested to know if something exist.
A few others, 464XLAT, NAT64, DNS64 etc. All share the same principles of being primarily IPv6 with some handling of IPv4 due to compatibility, but designed to basically be IPv6 only networks. The only major areas that breaks with IPv4 with some of these options is literal IPv4 addresses unable to be handled or anything that expects direct port to port communication with IPv4 can longer function given IPv4 is being translated in some way.
I think the conflict with these transitional mechanisms is we want IPv6 because we are enthusiasts and like this stuff, but don't want to give up routed IPv4 due to running stuff at home or hosting things available across the WAN and IPv6 not being everywhere, making accessing over IPv6 only not viable for obvious reasons, so we are basically torn between the legacy and the modern. Virgin Media could argue, they have no reason to maintain native IPv4 due to people doing this, given it's not part of the contract or really a designed use case. It just so happens some people are doing it and with the whole sticky IPv4 leases that basically means you will likely have the same IPv4 address for years despite being a technically dynamic IP unless your modem is offline for a long period of time or they do some network segmentation changes in your area and even then you've still got DDNS. It's quite by chance you can just host stuff on your residential connection and they've let it happen or not really tried to stop it.
Here's another scenario. Let's say we are in the upside down (any Stranger Things fans here?!) and in this alternative reality Virgin Media deploys dual stack IPv6 (I know let's imagine), chances are the IPv6 prefix isn't going to be static as that's typically reserved for business type packages, so dynamic IPv6 prefixes that could potentially change regularly or be like the routed IPv4 address and just stick around but potentially change at any time. Hosting on a dynamic IPv6 address isn't fun either, there are various solutions to this problem like the dynamic IPv4 problem, but it's now more layers to deal with. At some point you do have to pause and look at things and if it's really the right solution.
The irony however that VM Business offering has no IPv6 either, so it's not as if Virgin Media could argue that currently, but if VM Business did offer IPv6 without transitional deployments, that's where I could see some of us disappearing to, providing the cost wasn't massively dipropionate.
legacy1 wrote:This is what I see for IPv6
I'm on the edge of the world their is no beyond!
For those that can see the Router Advertisements coming from the WAN side, they look something like this when captured with tcpdump.
root@linksys-wrt3200acm:~# tcpdump -vvvv -ttt -i wan icmp6 and 'ip6[40] = 134' tcpdump: listening on wan, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 262144 bytes 00:00:00.000000 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 80) fe80::201:5cff:fe9c:2847 > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router advertisement, length 80 hop limit 0, Flags [managed, other stateful], pref medium, router lifetime 9000s, reachable time 3600000ms, retrans timer 0ms prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a02:8800:f000:18b0::/64, Flags [onlink], valid time 2592000s, pref. time 604800s 0x0000: 4080 0027 8d00 0009 3a80 0000 0000 2a02 0x0010: 8800 f000 18b0 0000 0000 0000 0000 prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a02:88fd:18:a::/64, Flags [onlink], valid time infinity, pref. time infinity 0x0000: 4080 ffff ffff ffff ffff 0000 0000 2a02 0x0010: 88fd 0018 000a 0000 0000 0000 0000 00:00:05.669770 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 80) fe80::201:5cff:fe9c:2847 > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router advertisement, length 80 hop limit 0, Flags [managed, other stateful], pref medium, router lifetime 9000s, reachable time 3600000ms, retrans timer 0ms prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a02:8800:f000:18b0::/64, Flags [onlink], valid time 2592000s, pref. time 604800s 0x0000: 4080 0027 8d00 0009 3a80 0000 0000 2a02 0x0010: 8800 f000 18b0 0000 0000 0000 0000 prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a02:88fd:18:a::/64, Flags [onlink], valid time infinity, pref. time infinity 0x0000: 4080 ffff ffff ffff ffff 0000 0000 2a02 0x0010: 88fd 0018 000a 0000 0000 0000 0000 00:00:03.819429 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 80) fe80::201:5cff:fe9c:2847 > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router advertisement, length 80 hop limit 0, Flags [managed, other stateful], pref medium, router lifetime 9000s, reachable time 3600000ms, retrans timer 0ms prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a02:8800:f000:18b0::/64, Flags [onlink], valid time 2592000s, pref. time 604800s 0x0000: 4080 0027 8d00 0009 3a80 0000 0000 2a02 0x0010: 8800 f000 18b0 0000 0000 0000 0000 prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a02:88fd:18:a::/64, Flags [onlink], valid time infinity, pref. time infinity 0x0000: 4080 ffff ffff ffff ffff 0000 0000 2a02 0x0010: 88fd 0018 000a 0000 0000 0000 0000 00:00:04.057022 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 80) fe80::201:5cff:fe9c:2847 > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router advertisement, length 80 hop limit 0, Flags [managed, other stateful], pref medium, router lifetime 9000s, reachable time 3600000ms, retrans timer 0ms prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a02:8800:f000:18b0::/64, Flags [onlink], valid time 2592000s, pref. time 604800s 0x0000: 4080 0027 8d00 0009 3a80 0000 0000 2a02 0x0010: 8800 f000 18b0 0000 0000 0000 0000 prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a02:88fd:18:a::/64, Flags [onlink], valid time infinity, pref. time infinity 0x0000: 4080 ffff ffff ffff ffff 0000 0000 2a02 0x0010: 88fd 0018 000a 0000 0000 0000 0000
You will see a different prefix per customer I'd imagine, but they'll be from the following prefixes 2a02:8801::/32 and 2a02:8880::/25.One of them is believed to be a management network for VM to be able to manage the CPE as you get admiratively denied error when trying to route it, the other is the prefix you have been provided which under a normal deployment would be advertised by your router to devices. In this case, the prefix delegation part usually with something like DHCPv6, is filtered out, so you cannot delegate the prefix with the normal conventional configurations.
Funnily enough, since I originally found them with tcpdump back in May 2021, the what is technically a routable prefix has not changed, I've just looked back at my notes then.
Yea, I like Stranger Things.
DynamicDNS is great, to be honest I remember it going back nearly 30 years when the ISP's would assign your IP to yourname.yourisp.com so hosting stuff was great (but slow). Dialup in 92 had that problem solved so really it should't exist now. In fact, dare I say it, a mix of DDNS ran by the ISP and CGNat could bypass a lot of the CGNAT issues.
This is just me, but.. With telcom prices down and mobile signals getting better I was just thinking of dumping VM. £63 a month for 200 meg broadband vs £20 a month for 4g/5g that supports full dual-stack that I can take with me when I go somewhere. The shine from fixed line services should be things like great latency, great customer support, migrating to current standards (IPv6 was being planned when Virgin Media was created 16~ years ago), competetive pricing, and high reliability.
How did the girl in Stranger Things get a IPv4 AND GeoLocate it both at the same time?.. DualDUN?
jamesmacwhite wrote:Here's another scenario. Let's say we are in the upside down (any Stranger Things fans here?!) and in this alternative reality Virgin Media deploys dual stack IPv6 (I know let's imagine), chances are the IPv6 prefix isn't going to be static as that's typically reserved for business type packages, so dynamic IPv6 prefixes that could potentially change regularly or be like the routed IPv4 address and just stick around but potentially change at any time. Hosting on a dynamic IPv6 address isn't fun either, there are various solutions to this problem like the dynamic IPv4 problem, but it's now more layers to deal with. At some point you do have to pause and look at things and if it's really the right solution.
Here the thing no one has figured out yet with the change of IPV6 subnet and likely a basic firewall your IP to a service you run changes the solution to this problem is by MAC the router knows what IPv6 a given MAC has in your LAN.
legacy1 wrote:
jamesmacwhite wrote:Here's another scenario. Let's say we are in the upside down (any Stranger Things fans here?!) and in this alternative reality Virgin Media deploys dual stack IPv6 (I know let's imagine), chances are the IPv6 prefix isn't going to be static as that's typically reserved for business type packages, so dynamic IPv6 prefixes that could potentially change regularly or be like the routed IPv4 address and just stick around but potentially change at any time. Hosting on a dynamic IPv6 address isn't fun either, there are various solutions to this problem like the dynamic IPv4 problem, but it's now more layers to deal with. At some point you do have to pause and look at things and if it's really the right solution.
Here the thing no one has figured out yet with the change of IPV6 subnet and likely a basic firewall your IP to a service you run changes the solution to this problem is by MAC the router knows what IPv6 a given MAC has in your LAN.
Yes, certainly not impossible, just more layers, DHCPv6 with static leases is simple enough, followed by needing a firewall capable of handling dynamic IPv6 addresses e.g. iptables where the rule doesn't target a specific address but the EUI-64 i.e the end part formed based on MAC address and is agnostic to the prefix, but now we are starting to go down needing firmware like OpenWrt or Pfsense to do all that. I'm not sure firmware from Netgear, TP-Link and others and such will have the dynamic firewall part. Right now many here are using 6in4 with a static prefix so you avoid that problem, I doubt we'll be seeing a static IPv6 prefix on residential lines, so just something to bear in mind for those who self host or have things exposed externally.
I'm sure not even VM would be silly enough to attempt dynamic ipv6.. it's completely unnecessary and almost nothing would support it - you can't go around renumbering your entire network every day.
- Yes, that would be the definition of Hell. I have my own internal DNS servers with over 50 IPv6 capable devices registered. The work involved in renumbering that lot, plus re-configuring the devices themselves, would be considerable. I may have to take that hit once, to move from HE IPv6 to VM native IPv6 (if it ever arrives!), but I certainly wouldn't want to do it with any regularity.
TonyHoyle wrote:I'm sure not even VM would be silly enough to attempt dynamic ipv6.. it's completely unnecessary and almost nothing would support it - you can't go around renumbering your entire network every day.
this is virgin media we are talking about here
TonyHoyle wrote:I'm sure not even VM would be silly enough to attempt dynamic ipv6.. it's completely unnecessary and almost nothing would support it - you can't go around renumbering your entire network every day.
I wouldn't be so sure. Even BT and Sky have dynamic IPv6 prefixes for residential, confirmed at IPv6 council meetings. Static is usually reserved for business type packages.
Pretty sure the DS-Lite IPv6 in Ireland was/is a dynamic prefix as well.
Here's an old post from a VM Ireland customer with their experiences of hosting behind DS-Lite over IPv6: https://flameeyes.blog/2016/10/29/running-services-on-virgin-media-ireland/
How would that even work? 90% of routers couldn't handle it.. you'd have to renumber your entire network every time it changed.. it would be utterly frustrating and nobody would want it.
The purpose of dynamic IP was shortage of IPs - it goes all the way back to dialup ISPs that had things like 256 IPs and 1000 customers .. somehow didn't go away with always on connections (well, it largely did, but some even quite big ISPs kept doing it - VM being one of them).
But dynamic ipv6? That's crazy. There are so many ipv6 prefixes it's complete nonsense to ration them. Hell, I have 65,000 of them just for my house..
TonyHoyle wrote:How would that even work? 90% of routers couldn't handle it.. you'd have to renumber your entire network every time it changed.. it would be utterly frustrating and nobody would want it.
The purpose of dynamic IP was shortage of IPs - it goes all the way back to dialup ISPs that had things like 256 IPs and 1000 customers .. somehow didn't go away with always on connections (well, it largely did, but some even quite big ISPs kept doing it - VM being one of them).
But dynamic ipv6? That's crazy. There are so many ipv6 prefixes it's complete nonsense to ration them. Hell, I have 65,000 of them just for my house..
It's happening right now on a few major UK ISPs that have deployed IPv6. There are options for static IPv6 without business level tiers if you go with an ISP more focussed on catering for enthusiasts i.e. Andrews and Arnold but otherwise usually anything static is behind business level packages instead. I don't disagree with you on why it's a bad idea but dynamic IPv6 prefixes aren't really anything new. I have a 4G backup connection with EE, that doesn't do inbound IPv6 due to firewalling in the core network and that's got a dynamic IPv6 prefix and also provides a /64, so that's about as evil as it gets, but knowing the limitations it provides connectivity and that's it.
The dynamic nature isn't about the lack of addresses available. Here's a few possible reasons why some ISPs do it, I'm not saying I agree with these statements either, but the rationale often comes down either of:
A purely business decision and likely the most common. There is probably no technical reason why you couldn't have a static IPv6 prefix on a non business type package, it is mostly down to wanting to upsell it as an additional add-on or feature.
Back-end systems aren't set up right for static allocation on the residential operations side. Again, it probably could be done, but the ISP may argue cost vs benefit, if it's for typical usage cases, which I'd imagine most of the people in this thread are outside of.
Network operations may want the flexibility of being able to reallocate or reroute without going through a long and tedious process. Some providers will periodically change addressing so that customers don't assume it will stay the same forever. We know this is the case with Virgin Media IPv4 on residential lines, the IPv4 is dynamic, but doesn't really change too much unless certain factors occur. However just because it hasn't changed doesn't mean it won't and is never sold as static.
The ISP provided kit will have been tested to handle it otherwise it wouldn't be deployed. Dynamic IPv6 prefixes might not be changing every day, but likely similar to how IPv4 is, it can change, it probably won't for a while, but it could although I can see some BT Community Forum posts suggests it was changing a lot looking at posts. This wouldn't work well for those doing inbound services of course, but we've discussed ways you could do it i.e. static DHCPv6 leases based on the MAC, firewall rules that are prefix agnostic and based on the EUI-64 value of a host. The argument from any provider will be you'll be wanting a business package for that, as running inbound services is not the typical residential use case and technically hosting stuff on a residential connection has probably never really been a supported use case, it just so happens you can and people do it and the ISP doesn't really care or want to try and do anything about it, providing you pay the bill each month of course but as soon as you start seeing such issues, the upsell will be, "we've got a business package just for you".
I'd be very surprised if Virgin Media provided static anything for the residential packages without either a specific add-on or package change that was specifically catering for that use case, that includes IPv6 if it ever appears. I would absolutely love to be proven wrong if the time comes but I wouldn't be surprised if it was put it that way.
That's why it's super important for transparency and customer feedback on these things to get it right, but we know Virgin Media isn't interested in listening and they've been tone deaf on IPv6 for over 10 years in terms of public communication or providing information beyond canned statements. It is nice to chat to the regulars and new people joining in on all things IPv6 though, this has to be the longest running thread on the community forum by far! I always look forward to discussing all things IPv6 with other people that care like I do.
TonyHoyle wrote:How would that even work? 90% of routers couldn't handle it.. you'd have to renumber your entire network every time it changed.. it would be utterly frustrating and nobody would want it.
The purpose of dynamic IP was shortage of IPs - it goes all the way back to dialup ISPs that had things like 256 IPs and 1000 customers .. somehow didn't go away with always on connections (well, it largely did, but some even quite big ISPs kept doing it - VM being one of them).
But dynamic ipv6? That's crazy. There are so many ipv6 prefixes it's complete nonsense to ration them. Hell, I have 65,000 of them just for my house..
Your correct, a dynamic Ipv6 would just be crazy. While I wouldn't demand a "static" IPv6 it should be super-sticky. So if they need/want to assign specific blocks to specific areas and resegmentation changes things then they could "move" you to a new block. It would't surprise me if the people behind it all don't actually understand the size and scope of it all. They are moving from an asset that's gaining value ($25+ per IP) to an asset worth nothing ($0+ per IP). For ~$10k a year every customer can have basically unlimited unique non-movable IP's, they probably look at that as something horrible and not able to be justified.
Some interesting viewpoints in this discussion ...
https://superuser.com/q/1479327/374461
... which includes the following links ...
https://superuser.com/q/1372769/374461
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Addressing?wprov=sfla1The issue isn't really the dynamic nature of the address itself but rather the potential changing, more or less frequently, of the delegated prefix. For example, with my HE tunnel I get a global /64 prefix of 2001:xxxx:yyyy:aaaa so all of the IPv6 addresses used in my home network have to start with this prefix if they want to be able to access the Internet. Also, since I primarily use Ipv6 at home, all of my 'servers' (of which I have several) must be assigned static (i.e. well known) addresses within this prefix range. I also like to assign, via DHCP[6] reservations, static addresses to all of my 'client' systems (this includes phones, tablets, laptops and even some smart home devices). I also maintain my own (internal) DNS servers to provide name <-> address resolution for the 100+ devices on my home network. So all of those IPv6 addresses, including the prefix, have to be defined there too. If HE were to change the delegated IPv6 prefix to something else, say 2001:zzzz:ffff:qqqq, then I would have to (a) reconfigure all my 'servers' with the new IPv6 addresses, (b) reconfigure my DHCPv6 server with a new prefix, (c) modify every DHCPv6 reservation with the new prefix/address, (d) modify all of my DNS forward and reverse zones (around 10) accordingly. That's a good 12+ hours of work and during that period IPv6 essentially does not work for me anymore. So dynamic addresses are fine and normal/expected. Regularly changing delegated prefixes are also fine for simple setups where you are just using IPv6 to access the Internet and don't really care what the prefix/address is. If you do care then you absolutely need a fixed prefix that never changes otherwise it is unworkable. Many home setups fall into the 'don't care' category but equally many do not. I am currently on VM Business, so I really hope that if they ever do deploy IPv6 that I have the option to pay for a fixed prefix otherwise I will have to change ISP (and currently in my area there really isn't a viable alternative).
ChrisJenkins wrote:The issue isn't really the dynamic nature of the address itself but rather the potential changing, more or less frequently, of the delegated prefix. For example, with my HE tunnel I get a global /64 prefix of 2001:xxxx:yyyy:aaaa so all of the IPv6 addresses used in my home network have to start with this prefix if they want to be able to access the Internet. Also, since I primarily use Ipv6 at home, all of my 'servers' (of which I have several) must be assigned static (i.e. well known) addresses within this prefix range. I also like to assign, via DHCP[6] reservations, static addresses to all of my 'client' systems (this includes phones, tablets, laptops and even some smart home devices). I also maintain my own (internal) DNS servers to provide name <-> address resolution for the 100+ devices on my home network. So all of those IPv6 addresses, including the prefix, have to be defined there too. If HE were to change the delegated IPv6 prefix to something else, say 2001:zzzz:ffff:qqqq, then I would have to (a) reconfigure all my 'servers' with the new IPv6 addresses, (b) reconfigure my DHCPv6 server with a new prefix, (c) modify every DHCPv6 reservation with the new prefix/address, (d) modify all of my DNS forward and reverse zones (around 10) accordingly. That's a good 12+ hours of work and during that period IPv6 essentially does not work for me anymore. So dynamic addresses are fine and normal/expected. Regularly changing delegated prefixes are also fine for simple setups where you are just using IPv6 to access the Internet and don't really care what the prefix/address is. If you do care then you absolutely need a fixed prefix that never changes otherwise it is unworkable. Many home setups fall into the 'don't care' category but equally many do not. I am currently on VM Business, so I really hope that if they ever do deploy IPv6 that I have the option to pay for a fixed prefix otherwise I will have to change ISP (and currently in my area there really isn't a viable alternative).
Static IPv6 prefixes seem for the most part have been adopted as a more business type offering, so it is highly likely that when the time comes (2040?) VM Business will likely do static IPv6 prefixes without any question, as it is almost expected as a requirement. VM Business does have the slightly weird scenario of offering Dynamic IPv4 on a business line but you can choose to have 1 or more static IPv4 addresses and I'd imagine static IPv6 would form part of the offer. Although many may have found the non static to be better considering the performance of the GRE tunnels was terrible at one point. I've never really been keen on VM Business, given if you have one more static IPv4, if I recall you can't do modem mode like on residential due to the GRE tunnel requirement and this wasn't really support being configured on your own router. Could be wrong though.
Most other major ISPs that are both residential and business and support IPv6 as a majority seem to be offering static IPv6 on business packages only, however some ISPs are doing static IPv6 without being under business tier by the looks of it, such as Andrews and Arnold, Zen, Aquiss and there's likely a few others. These ISPs however do tend to be more tech focussed but clearly some ISPs have chosen to go this way as a pure business decision. Perhaps catering more towards the audience that this thread is made of.
You never know, it depends on if your area is in scope for full fibre by Openreach or an alt net, my area is down as the general target by April 2024 with Openreach, for a long time their database returned "no plans in your area" then all of sudden this changed around 6 months ago and then Openreach contractors have been in the area the past few months, the CBTs have shown up on the poles and in underground chambers (which most of my area is), so now just waiting for a go live to order an ONT, this of course could be tomorrow, next week, a year etc, but depends on plans and area I guess. Keep an eye on https://one.network or https://bidb.uk/ BID is great since one.network took away public works descriptions, with that I've been able to see specific detail of Openreach and their FTTP progress, knowing there's blocked ducts on parts, when their doing dig work for laying new ducting etc. Probably a bit sad, but nice to know what's been going on!
- FWIW, iOS now survives in an entirely NAT64 environment: that's the consequence of Apple controlling all submissions to their stores, and giving all Mac users the trivial means to simulate an IPv6-only NAT64 environment. The death of (or unusability of) NAT64 is greatly exaggerated. Provided are means to autodetect NAT64, so that native APIs reach IPv4 literals just OK. It's not the whole solution, but it's an important indicator, and undermines many arguments in favour of DS-lite. It's true -- even Skype now works. (If you use a Mac, Option-click the Internet Sharing row in Sharing preferences to expose NAT64 controls.)
As far as I'm concerned, transition to IPv6 is the broader goal; if DS-Lite makes it possible, I'm in favour of it, and so what if it harms peoples' expectations of IPv4 addressability and usage? Eventually, CGN will happen -- best prepare for it now. There are clear economic arguments for exploiting IPv4 addresses for "server" use cases today, and those presuppose some measure of customer demand for that particular requirement. I know it's not a popular opinion, but really, don't you think it's time to demand IPv6 by default now, while you still can? Virgin Media may be utterly incompetent, but even they have a growing customer base in need of IPv4 connectivity, and eventually that will only be met by shared IPv4 resources. You must ask for IPv6, today, right now. It does not matter what their past record is; that is the future. Customer expectations will require some guarantee of end-to-end connectivity, which will only ever be met by IPv6.
