IPv6 support on Virgin media

[dgcarter]

Does anyone know whether (and if so when) Virgin plan to implement IPv6 on its network?

[Morgaine]

Just a Sunday update, no change since the 2018-04-10 collapse of Virgin's public IPv6 activity:

It's been over a month since that collapse, and while my interpretation still fits the data, something is beginning to feel wrong.  Turning off the IPv6 access of trialists for this long would be quite a kick in the teeth after giving them a taste of IPv6 for over a year.  It doesn't sounds right, even for Virgin.

Unfortunately, the only other explanation that comes to mind is a bleak one, that Virgin has called off IPv6 yet again.  I hope not.  That would be a disaster not only for the trialists but for the entire UK.

Morgaine.

[Anonymous]

The aim of trials is to try stuff out in the real world that you can't test internally or in a lab. Perhaps they found out that DS-Lite really does suck.

[Tudor]

I think the DS-Lite policy was for all of the Liberty Global systems. Now that they are probably selling off all of the cable networks in Europe except for the UK and Eire perhaps the VM arm has had a rethink. 

[cje85]

Hopefully they're rethinking as DS Lite sounds like the worst possible option. 

https://support-en.upc.ch/app/answers/detail/a_id/1259/kw/IPv6 

This is Liberty Global's Swiss service (not being sold) and according to the information on their website, you can't use "bridge mode" (Modem Mode) on IPv6. If that applies to VM I think a lot of people will be quite happy to stick with IPv4!

[fyonn]

---

@cje85 wrote:

Hopefully they're rethinking as DS Lite sounds like the worst possible option. 

https://support-en.upc.ch/app/answers/detail/a_id/1259/kw/IPv6 

This is Liberty Global's Swiss service (not being sold) and according to the information on their website, you can't use "bridge mode" (Modem Mode) on IPv6. If that applies to VM I think a lot of people will be quite happy to stick with IPv4!

---

ooh, I'd really like to know the answer to the point about bridge mode. I've not used my virgin router as a router in about 7 years as I have a pfsense router behind it that I vastly prefer. I also want IPv6, but I was assuming that the router would also hand over all IPv6 info to my router to deal with too...

[Morgaine]

That document linked above (within Liberty Global's Swiss service) is expressed poorly and may lead to confusion, especially this part:

Due to the absence of the NAT server, the following functions and settings are no longer possible with IPv6:

 Bridge mode
 UPnP
 Port forwarding / forwarding
 Port triggering
 DMZ hosting

With IPv4, the above-mentioned functions and settings can be configured directly on the modem.

That's putting the blame on IPv6, when it has nothing at all to do with IPv6 but with IPv4's remote implementation in DS-Lite.  Even worse, it seems to be suggesting that the "solution" is to get rid of IPv6 (although I may be misinterpreting that.)  I'd rephrase the above more accurately like this:

Due to the absence of IPv4 NAT within the CPE under DS-Lite, the following IPv4 functions and settings in the CPE are no longer possible for IPv4 (although they still have equivalents in IPv6):

 CPE LAN Bridging for local IPv4 devices (this has nothing to do with modem-only mode)
 UPnP
 IPv4 Port forwarding / forwarding
 IPv4 Port triggering
 IPv4 DMZ hosting

With IPv4 implemented locally on the CPE instead of over DS-Lite, the above-mentioned IPv4 functions and settings can be configured directly on the CPE.  What's more, there is no need to disable native IPv6 when IPv4 reverts to local.

All of the above continues to be true when CPE functionality is split into modem-only operation plus a separate router.

Unfortunately "the Internet" at large has confused bridge operation with modem-only operation way beyond repair, despite them having very different purposes and working entirely differently.  A bridge merges two or more separate MAC address spaces into one so that you don't need to route between them at a layer above --- this "flattening" makes it easier for wifi access points or other devices to work with broadband.  Modem-only operation of a CPE has the purpose of turning the CPE into nothing more than an interface on another router, typically a more featureful model, and is very different from running the CPE as a combined modem/router and then bridging its LAN to other local LANs.

Alas it's far too late to sweep back the tide of Internet misinformation, but at least we can be clear about the distinction here.  More relevantly, there is no a-priori reason why modem-only operation cannot be used in a DS-Lite setting, although it does give the router more work to do since it needs to set up the IPv6 tunnel to the AFTR IPv4 gateway itself.  It's nothing particularly onerous though.

Morgaine.

[Morgaine]

Sunday update, no significant change:

No news is bad news.  My usual optimism is plummeting, this is not where I expected us to be this summer. 😞

Morgaine.

[Morgaine]

I cleared out this graph repost, as @davefiddes explains below why it appeared broken initially.

[Anonymous]

Yep. It happens every week when you post. I think that images have to go through a moderator for a manual check. They always show up eventually.

[Morgaine]

Many thanks, @davefiddes, that explains it perfectly.  (The image in my repost faired no better, so I cleared it out.)

I'm surprised that I hadn't noticed before.  It seems that Lithium doesn't show posters the same thing that everyone else sees, at least for images until they get approved.  I suppose it's a necessary safeguard on the Internet of today, but it adds to the support burden unfortunately.