Cancelled installation due to wayleave expiry - request for compensation

[SimonW_Windsor]

Please can someone with authority at Virgin Media please help me as I’m at my wits-end in regards my customer complaint.

To cut a long story short… I was an existing VM Media customer who moved house on the 30th June 2023. The house I moved into was covered by Virgin Media services, however in order to complete cable installation/pre-pull, wayleave consent was required. This was not apparent until a month and a half after my original installation date of the 1st July 2023. Trying to get information from VM was like trying to get blood out of a stone. Customer services didn’t have a clue because my install date kept on being pushed back. As most of you regular folks will be aware, way-leave is a process to obtain permission to run a cable over land of shared ownership (or I presume, someone else’s land). In my case I partially owned the land, a patch of drive 2m x 2m.

The way-leave consent/application expired, and on the 2nd September 2023 (63 days after the original installation date), the way-leave officer called me to inform me they could no longer provide service to me. At this point my contract was cancelled and my account in relation to my new house deactivated (in fact, technically it never started….). Other than my conversation with the way-leave officer I had no correspondence from Virgin Media. They didn’t even email me to inform me that my contract was cancelled!

During these 63 days my family and I struggled with mobile internet to provide internet service which is patchy to say the least, and stressful in regards managing data limits being reached between our mobile phone contracts etc. However somehow, we got through it (and I also work from home!!).

During these 63 days Virgin Media also credited £150 to my account as a “goodwill gesture”.

So, over the last few months I have been trying to understand whether I am due compensation (it states on the VM website that it is £5.83 a day from the date of the originally planned install date), and have raised various complaints but no one from VM calls me back.

The compensation I believe I am due is £367.29.

My Account is deactivated and I am no longer a VM customer in any sense (I am now with BT).

The £150 credit on my account, I have been told, cannot be refunded as it is for me to use against VM services!

Here are my customer complaints numbers. Can someone from Virgin Media please explain whether I am due ANY compensation, or due to the fact the install didn’t happen AT ALL, its tough luck? Obviously, the fact that I’ve been a VM customer for the last decade is unlikely to come into it, even it would be fair that it should:

C-1310231163

C-130723340

I have a whole load of VM equipment that needs collecting also.

[Tom_W1]

Hi @SimonW_Windsor thanks for your post here in the Community although we're sorry to hear of the concerns you've raised here.

I would like to look into this for you, please expect a PM from me to arrive shortly and respond directly when you can!
Please note, I am off on annual leave from now until December 27th so thanks for your patience in the meantime.

Have a great Christmas and we'll get do our best to get this resolved for you.

Many thanks

[goslow]

This has a strong whiff of VM bungling and 'confusion' about it (both of which are very common in topics on here regarding VM installations). Soooo many things wrong with this description of VM failure it's hard to know where to begin.

First bit of 'confusion' is the idea of the wayleave expiring. The document which is most often cited on here is this one

https://store.virginmedia.com/content/dam/eSales/networkexpansion/Wayleave/access_agreement.pdf

which notes in point 10 that the agreement is in force as long as VM is a telecoms operator. So, do you know if this was the document in question? If so, I am not sure how it can expire as VM would require access to any cable on your shared drive into the future for maintenance etc.

Was it a neighbour who had to sign the wayleave? Do you know details of when the neighbour signed and does the neighbour have a copy of what was signed (which you can reference).

Something that could possibly expire is a council permit to carry out work in the street (if that featured in your installation at all). There are regular topics on here where VM applies for a permit (which does have a time-limit on it) and VM blunders about failing to do the work within the limit of the permit and so a delay is caused.

You should refer to the OFCOM minimum requirements for auto compensation

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0026/216962/Industry-Code-of-Practice-for-Automatic-...

and para 40d which is what VM will fall back on to avoid paying (namely while waiting for wayleave or for a council permit for street work)

Any reduction in compensation is only limited though to the time taken while waiting for wayleave to be signed or for the council permit to be provided (it does not remove altogether the need to pay compensation)

What we see regularly on here in forum topics is VM tries to blame the whole of a very long delay on a wait for wayleave or a council permit so VM will claim it owes no compensation. VM then offers to pay a much smaller 'goodwill' gesture payment (as has happened to you)

VM's other dodge to avoid paying is the concept of the 'provisional' installation date. This is something VM has invented itself to avoid, or reduce, pay-outs. The word 'provisional' does not appear in the OFCOM document.

Para 9 refers to the 'date initially confirmed in writing' to 'activate' services as the starting point for compensation.

The claim of a 'provisional' date has been tested at arbitration and feedback on here has been that the adjudicator rejected VM's 'provisional' invention and awarded compensation to the customer. In only one case I can recall, the adjudicator did make some reductions in the pay-out based on the fact that VM had made mention of the 'provisional' date at some point in comm's with the customer. Much will depend on what you were told along the way about the original installation date.

Also worth noting that VM does have the right to stop paying compensation and cancel the job if it cannot install. If VM is going to do that it has to issue you with a 'cease notice' for the compensation and continue paying you compensation for 30 days beyond the cease notice.

I can't recall a topic on here where VM has followed the correct procedure in giving the customer a formal 'cease notice'. Usually the customer only finds out by chance that VM has cancelled the job (as in your case).

Past topics on here describe how VM is hopelessly bad at following the auto comp rules correctly (either through mis-applying the rules or trying to invent their own rules). There is plenty of case history on here where customers have gone to arbitration and won full compensation (even when VM said none was due).

The devil is in the detail though in providing a clear timeline of events, with corresponding evidence, to allow the adjudicator to track the case and come to a conclusion on what is due to you in line with the auto comp rules. Feedback on here is that VM often produces little/no evidence or the evidence which VM presents is an incomprehensible mess or is just based on unsubstantiated claims. If you can do a better job with your evidence than VM, you are likely to be awarded something.

https://www.commsombudsman.org/our-process

Those who have used the arbitration process have generally reported back on here that the process was accessible, efficient, fair and easy to progress.

Your case sounds like the usual bungling and delay from VM and a very likely prospect of VM trying to blame the whole thing on a delayed wayleave so as to claim they owe you nothing.

[SimonW_Windsor]

I decided not to say in my first post (as I wanted to keep it short) that I contacted the Communications Ombudsman (Phone: 0330 440 1614). I’ve also asked Virgin Media for a full subject access request (ASR), or as Virgin Media call it a DSER, in preparation for my complaint to the Ombudsman. In addition, as a result of my call to the Ombudsman I have re-opened my complaints (as per references above) on the 19th Nov 2023. I now have 2 months to wait for Virgin Media to resolve it, or for Virgin Media to provide me with a deadlock letter, or a final position letter. During these two months of waiting (or resolution) I will need to contact Virgin Media a total of 8 times before I can refer my complaint to the Ombudsman.

[SimonW_Windsor]

Thank you so much for your detailed answer. It was very kind of you to take the time to reply. Your summary of my position, and of Virgin Media is very accurate. I have since replied to my own comment in regards further details of my conversation with the Communications Ombudsman earlier this year. As a result I have asked Virgin Media for a "subject access request" in order for me to detail the many correspondences with Virgin Media, and journey I have been through with them. I will then take it forward, not because of monetary compensation, but of treating customers fairly. I was previously a Virgin Media customer since 2011 (account number REMOVED)

[MOD EDIT: Personal and private information has been removed from this post.]

[用心棒]

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@SimonW_Windsor wrote:

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… During these two months of waiting (or resolution) I will need to contact Virgin Media a total of 8 times before I can refer my complaint to the Ombudsman.

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 “I will need to contact Virgin Media a total of 8 times before I can refer my complaint to the Ombudsman.” Why? AFAICS there is no such requirement to contact Virgin Media whilst they deliberate the merits of the complaint.

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[goslow]

Not sure I have fully understood your reference to 'I will need to contact Virgin Media a total of 8 times before I can refer my complaint to the Ombudsman' above but, if it was VM who told you that, that is totally untrue as already noted by others above. You should include that in your ombudsman case if you think it was an attempt to obstruct you from accessing ADR.

You can also share your unhappy complaint experience with OFCOM.

They launched an investigation into VM on 13 July 2023 specifically into VM's complaints processes with particular reference to 'complaints handling/facilitating appropriate access to ADR during 2022/23'

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/bulletins/enforcement-bulletin/open-cases/cw_01275

Case ref. no. and an email at the bottom of the above page or submit with same info via the contact form

https://ofcomforms.secure.force.com/formentry/SitesFormCCTMonitoring

Submitting information won't help your individual complaint but it will contribute to the OFCOM investigation and it sounds like your experience is directly relevant to the terms of reference of the investigation.

While you prepare your ombudsman case, you might find it useful to read some of the past cases where the customer has provided useful feedback on the (successful) outcome of their ombudsman case.

If you read through the past topics, you will get an idea of the dodges and excuses VM comes up with to try to avoid paying out the correct compensation (forewarned is forearmed etc. etc.). As you will see from the topics, the majority of customers are driven by the same motivations as you in making sure VM treats customers fairly and is held to account and fulfils its obligations under the auto comp scheme rules

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/QuickStart-set-up-and/Pre-Pull-Nightmare/m-p/5275679#M226421

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Managing-Your-Account-Cable/Compensation-Scheme/m-p/5304899#M22...

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/QuickStart-set-up-and/Compensation-advice-please/m-p/5326587#M2...

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Managing-Your-Account-Cable/Compensation/m-p/5375731#M236832

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/QuickStart-set-up-and/Waiting-for-pre-installation-work-can-I-c...

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/QuickStart-set-up-and/My-Install-Tale-of-Woe-Since-October-So-F...

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/QuickStart-set-up-and/Delayed-installation/m-p/5420709#M238025

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/QuickStart-set-up-and/Do-Pre-Pull-days-count-towards-Delayed-In...

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/QuickStart-set-up-and/Compensation-for-delayed-install-VM-playi...

Good luck with the case and do post back any outcomes on here as it offers encouragement to others in the future who will be faced with the same kinds of issues when VM fails to pay up after a delayed/failed installation.

[SimonW_Windsor]

Thank you 用心棒. The Ombudsman told me that I had to do this before I can involve them. I presume its to avoid any time wasters.

[SimonW_Windsor]

I did not know that I can demand a deadlock letter. I will call them after Christmas and request the same. thank you. Have a good Christmas!

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