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UtopiaOpera
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Message 11 of 37
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Re: How have Virgin Media not been sued? MAC Filtering!


@griffin wrote:

@UtopiaOpera wrote:

WOW, what a Virgin Media slave you are. Are you actually for real? I'm asking for a functioning product... MAC filtering is in the router... IT'S BASIC SECURITY... I don't know if they as an ISP are legally obliged to provide MAC filtering or anything else, but it's sort of, you know... expected!

 

Yes it is basic security, so basic in fact it is trivial to bypass


Yeah, well the Virgin Media one is anyway. Really easy... embarrassingly easy... 

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griffin
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Message 12 of 37
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Re: How have Virgin Media not been sued? MAC Filtering!

Nothing to do with VM, as all wireless devices communicate over Level 2 using MAC addresses, and as said before it is easy to spoof a MAC address.
This Link may provide some basic information. Not a link sponsered by VM  lol

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UtopiaOpera
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Message 13 of 37
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Re: How have Virgin Media not been sued? MAC Filtering!


@DreamOfCheese wrote:

@UtopiaOpera wrote:

@DreamOfCheese wrote:
Can we stop calling MAC filtering security? At the very best it's security by obscurity.

If you're positive this smart plug isn't in your home and nobody in your household configured it to your wireless network my advice would be to change your wireless network password, blacklisting the MAC doesn't fix the fact your password needed to be known to link it in the first place and that MAC addresses can be spoofed.

As far as I can see the Xiaomi smart plug does not come in a BS1363 variant so it'd be an unusual choice for using in the UK.

How is it not a security feature when I can create a list of excepted MAC addresses and keep all others out?

You just sound like yet another unpaid, VM, white-knighting slave. Sorry... but if you and all the other regular helpers on this forum spent as much time calling them out on the **bleep**less SH3, then they might have actually fixed it by now! You're just acting as enablers for an unacceptable product!


MAC filtering (both whitelist and blacklist) is no better than a name list to get into a building, it's only useful until you change your name to one either on or not on the list depending on white or blacklist.
Whitelist takes more effort to circumvent, but it's still quite easily doable as the systems in the area will be advertising the necessary information.

But that's not important as the rest of your message makes it clear you only read the first line of mine, and not the actual advice I gave.


Let's see where VM themselves store this setting... Advanced Settings > Wireless > SECURITY!!

I can only imagine this plug (Via Zenmap: IHome SmartPlug iSP5WWC / IHome SmartPlug iSP5WWC, iRobot Roomba 980 vacuum cleaner) found its way onto the network some how last night when I has to set up a new wireless printer using WPS, which I always have switched off, as I am familiar with some wifi points of attack, Kali, Wire Shark, $macchanger -r wlan0 etc etc...

My password is long and complex so, it's the only way. Now, in this instance, I wanted boot the MAC address off, and I couldn't.

If you're going to post back some lame excuse letting VM off the hook... please, just don't even bother!

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Dave_cq
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Message 14 of 37
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Re: How have Virgin Media not been sued? MAC Filtering!

It could be a new Doctor Who series ... Invasion of the WiFi Vacuum Cleaners!!     Smiley Surprised  Smiley LOL

 

 

********* SuperHub 2ac - Asus rt-ac68u Router - Vivid 100Mbps **********

Electron
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VMCopperUser
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Message 15 of 37
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Re: How have Virgin Media not been sued? MAC Filtering!

As others have said, MAC filtering is usually quite easy to bypass.

The firmware on my 2ac is quite poor too, extremely poor actually.  the DHCP server is happy to give out IP's reserved to new devices coming on the network, then when the reserved device comes on the 2ac starts going a bit loopy as it wants to assign the same IP to both devices (Never, ever, ever, seen a router do that before lol)...

Now I don't have the Hub3, so I can't comment on it, but in my 2ac (and all Netgear routers from about 2008~) the WPS brute force attack is hampered by "Lock Down" feature that turns off WPS AND it also allows you to add specific MAC devices to the WPS blocklist, but brute forcing the WPS means someone could generate a new MAC each time they try the next number.  Personally, once I have devices connected to my network I disable the PIN, and per the rules of WPS a disabled PIN setup also means the pushbutton setup has to be turned off too.

Are you sure it was on wireless?... And without upsetting you, are you sure you put the MAC Block in the correct WiFi section?

----
I do not work for VM, but I would. It is just a Job.
Most things I say I make up and sometimes it's useful, don't be mean if it's wrong.
I would also make websites for them, because the job never seems to require the website to work.
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legacy1
Alessandro Volta
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Message 16 of 37
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Re: How have Virgin Media not been sued? MAC Filtering!

VM can fix this very simply...remove MAC Filtering for router mode.

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UtopiaOpera
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Message 17 of 37
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Re: How have Virgin Media not been sued? MAC Filtering!


@VMCopperUser wrote:

As others have said, MAC filtering is usually quite easy to bypass.

The firmware on my 2ac is quite poor too, extremely poor actually.  the DHCP server is happy to give out IP's reserved to new devices coming on the network, then when the reserved device comes on the 2ac starts going a bit loopy as it wants to assign the same IP to both devices (Never, ever, ever, seen a router do that before lol)...

Now I don't have the Hub3, so I can't comment on it, but in my 2ac (and all Netgear routers from about 2008~) the WPS brute force attack is hampered by "Lock Down" feature that turns off WPS AND it also allows you to add specific MAC devices to the WPS blocklist, but brute forcing the WPS means someone could generate a new MAC each time they try the next number.  Personally, once I have devices connected to my network I disable the PIN, and per the rules of WPS a disabled PIN setup also means the pushbutton setup has to be turned off too.

Are you sure it was on wireless?... And without upsetting you, are you sure you put the MAC Block in the correct WiFi section?


😜 You won't rattle me unless you try and defend VM on this issue... which they've had 2+ years to fix.

I address the reasons why I would have liked to use MAC filter in my last post above.

And yes, I was putting it in the right place. It's an open secret that is doesn't work. By-the-by, when I kept getting the error 'MAC address already in use', I changed one character to see if it would go though - it did - and it's stuck on there and won't delete! So, hope I never buy a device with that MAC address /jk.

So, MAC filtering on SH3 is one massive cluster f.. ... ... but worry not, there's plenty of people around here who solve your problem by telling you you don't need to use it and to spend some of your own money on a router that does work ... ... .... and these people have a hard time wondering why you get annoyed?

Join Virgin Media TODAY! You pay for the service like a regular ISP, but have the added privilege of spending extra money buying a router that has basic functions working... now you have two routers plugged in using twice the electricity and cluttering the place up!!! No other ISP offers you this level of service, JOIN TODAY!!! 

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UtopiaOpera
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Message 18 of 37
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Re: How have Virgin Media not been sued? MAC Filtering!



@legacy1 wrote:

VM can fix this very simply...remove MAC Filtering for router mode.


@legacy1 wrote:

VM can fix this very simply...remove MAC Filtering for router mode.


Even better, why not spit in the face of anyone who has the audacity to want to use it before shooting them point blank in the head. Problem solved.

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Very Insightful Person
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Message 19 of 37
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Re: How have Virgin Media not been sued? MAC Filtering!

TBF, whilst yes its a PITA it dont work, among the list of HUB3's shortcomings its small beer.

I would also echo and reiterate- if your using a MAC addy anything (whitelist blacklist or AN.OTHER) for Network security, especially if you are into IOT , you need to revisit Security 101. NOW.

Whilst your argument (That VM must provide a better router) is well made and SHOULD be the case, it simply isn't.Their responsibility stops at the modem side. They provide WAN, LAN is your problem.It would be next to impossible to FORCE  VM to take more responsibility for the quality of their gateways, and believe me, many of us (and by us I mean both the SU group and customers interested enough to give a damn) have tried.

Because of how dysfunctional the industry is with the regulator forcing ISP's to encourage switching, even voting with your feet doesn't work. You are simply "churn"

SO whilst you may not like it..... it may stick in your throat... you may hate yourself for doing it....but if you want better features, get a better router.

Or lobby for change. Not that this shower of eejits we call a government have the sense to come in out of the rain, so the regulator will continue to promote the status quo and we all will suffer the indignity of HUB3 and similair....

 

As a Very Insightful Person, I'm here to share my knowledge. I don't work for Virgin Media.

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Message 20 of 37
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Re: How have Virgin Media not been sued? MAC Filtering!

Oh **bleep** - I've just told my brother off about MAC filtering.

MAC Filtering is of ZERO EFFECTIVENESS against hackers.  All they have to do is the following.

1.  See what MAC addresses are already connecting to a given access point.  - MAC addresses are transmitted in the clear BY DESIGN as they are used to set up the initial connection prior to setting up WPA/WPA2 encryption.

2. Set up a device to Spoof one of the MAC addresses that's in communication with the base station.

3. Force the device to disassociate with the base station by sending a particular wifi message and then connect instead.  The guy with the spoofed MAC looses their connection while the hacker is active.

It's about as effective a technique as hiding the SSID of the base station.

In the meantime if you are using MAC filtering, it actually becomes more of a hassle to you as you have to manually add the new mac to the filter table prior to being able to connect to the router (or turn off MAC filtering in order to be able to use it using the routers automatic tool).

Tim

Note if your using WPA/WPA2 and a hacker is getting past that, then MAC filtering is no obstacle.

As a Very Insightful Person, I'm here to share my knowledge. I don't work for Virgin Media.

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