High latency on Virgin media link

[Esnw33430]

Hi All,

Anyone else seeing issues with high latency on traffic heading over to Manchester area today?

Been looking at connectivity issues and poor performance with a 3rd party (Zscaler) and for days now we have been seeing issues with traffic flows from my link heading to their DC:

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| 192.168.11.129 - 0 | 922 | 922 | 1 | 5 | 80 | 3 |
| 10.53.39.93 - 0 | 922 | 922 | 9 | 17 | 229 | 10 |
| 62.255.120.213 - 0 | 922 | 922 | 9 | 18 | 230 | 11 |
| No response from host - 100 | 186 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 186 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 186 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 62.254.85.86 - 0 | 922 | 922 | 22 | 33 | 243 | 24 |
| 213.46.175.106 - 0 | 922 | 922 | 23 | 33 | 243 | 24 |
| 213.254.214.246 - 0 | 922 | 922 | 29 | 39 | 250 | 33 |
| 46.33.77.238 - 0 | 922 | 922 | 29 | 37 | 195 | 31 |
| 165.225.254.38 - 0 | 922 | 922 | 29 | 38 | 842 | 33 |
| 165.225.196.40 - 2 | 868 | 855 | 29 | 39 | 722 | 30 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider 

Its the peak times that are raising a few eyebrows, I'm a network engineer by trade so understand things change continually on the web. I'm going to rip my home LAN back to basics (I'm using Meraki kit internally (security / switch and WiFi AP's) behind my Virgin hub as the WiFi is shocking on just the hub.

just wondered is anyone else was seeing latency issues on the service, its not always been this way. I know the schools are off and the network is likely seeing high traffic, traffic to the same location on non-Virgin links dont appear to be seeing the same issues.

To me it seems traffic is going all over the place to get to Manchester from Wigan, the Geolocation shown for some of the hops is crazy (I understand some of the location info could be wrong if the office location is logged rather than device) but 213.46.175.106, A liberty Global router, is shown as over in the netherlands ?

Thanks

Graham

[Tudor]

Cannot help much wit the latency, but the VM mail system is located in the Netherlands.

[Paulina_Z]

Hi @Esnw33430,

Welcome to our Community Forums! Thank you for your first post and I'm sorry to hear that you're experiencing some ongoing connection issues at home!

I understand that this situation can be very frustrating. Have you taken a look through our Hub Lights Page and our WiFi Diagnostic tool to see if this can help narrow down your issue?

However, I was able to locate your account through your Forum details. After running some further checks, I can see that your power levels are not looking so great. I can see that there are some ongoing issues with your downstream levels.

In order to have this resolved, I will need to book in a technician. In order to confirm some details, I will send you a Private Message. Please keep an eye out for a purple envelope at the top right corner of your Forum page.

I will be in touch soon.

Thanks,

[Paulina_Z]

Hi @Esnw33430,

Thank you for confirming your details over Private Message.

I was able to book in your technician appointment for the first available date and confirmed the date and time with you over PM as well.

Please keep us updated on how your appointment goes and if you need any further help with this issue after.

Thanks! 🙂

[Esnw33430]

Quick update on this,

Andy the engineer attended on time as arranged, checked all cables and connectors on the install here. Confirmed drop cable ok and replaces all terminations and attenuators, speed is good (200down/20up) but we are still seeing issues as we get out into the VM network. He is going to call my mobile to check if all is OK but wanted to update here as requested too. 

I can at times see latency rise 1500ms or more and we see between .8 and 3% packetloss out beyond the 1st hop, I'm currently connected direct to my hub3 in modem mode and at times as seen below its saying its 106ms to hit the router on hop two. not always but this is seen often,  I know the stuff outside of Virgin network is beyond control and the last few hops are in a network I pay for a service with and they can sort those 🙂

I think the power levels on the Hub3 look better now but we do seem to get errors and critical alerts in the logs still (MAC obscured):

Network Log
Time	Priority	Description
10/08/2021 17:28	notice	LAN login Success;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 16:45	critical	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 16:41	critical	SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 16:23	critical	Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 16:23	Warning!	Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 16:22	critical	SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 16:22	Warning!	RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 11:02	critical	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 11:01	critical	Unicast Maintenance Ranging attempted - No response - Retries exhausted;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 11:01	critical	Ranging Request Retries exhausted;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 11:00	critical	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 11:00	Warning!	RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 11:00	critical	SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 11:00	Warning!	RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 10:59	Warning!	Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 10:59	critical	SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 10:59	Warning!	RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 10:59	critical	SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 10:59	Warning!	RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
10/08/2021 07:39	notice	LAN login Success;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

Any thoughts?

As I said, I'm connected direct to the Hub 3 in modem mode right now with a known good CAT6 cable, usually I'm running separate Meraki router / switch and WiFi AP devices on the back of this but wanted to check with just the VM router. Same issues with HUB 3 in Router mode so this rules out anything in-line before the Hub 3 as a cause.

Cheers

[Laurie_C]

Hi Esnw33430,

Thanks for updating us, I am sorry that you're still seeing some issues with your connection. I've had a look at your account, and everything looks good from our end. All of your levels are within specification, and there aren't any known issues or outages in your area.

Have you been able to speak with our engineer since you updated this thread? If so, what did they advise?

Kind regards,
Laurie

[Esnw33430]

Hello, 

I did manage to speak with Andy the engineer, he called me as planned and emailed the info I give about high latency and loss on traffic to his manager. The final decision was nothing more can be done, more testing shows we have much lower latency and no packet loss to the same destination via other ISP circuit's.

I'm getting a different link installed for work purposes, as a data network engineer, it's important to have a stable and fast link and virgin has been excellent for years. To be told nothing can be done about the latency and packet loss is disappointing, more so as I know for a fact that's not true. True it involves cost and effort but it can be fixed.

I dont have the luxury of saying that to the thousands of people I support so it's faster and easier to get a new pipe for work purposes.

Andy did a cracking job on his visit, safe and polite service, no issues with that at all. Having to tell his customer they can do nothing about latency and packet loss on traffic within the virgin media network was as disappointing for him as it was me, you could literally hear it in his voice as he explained nothing more would or could be done.

Luckily I have the capability to run multiple isp links, other customers may not be so fortunate.

Thanks for checking in, not the end to this issue I wanted to report but its not the end of the world. 

[Esnw33430]

Further to the last posting on this, I have moved all work traffic to a non-Virgin link and resolved those issues now. For interest I setup a BQM as seen below.

We are still seeing packet loss on traffic via Virgin media link, at some point someone will need to acknowledge there is an issue that requires Virgin to check routers within their network.

[Serena_C]

Hi @Esnw33430

Thanks very much for popping back to let us know that you have resolved those issues by moving all work traffic to a non-Virgin link.

I am so sorry to hear that nothing else can be done regarding the packet loss and latency on the network at the moment. Apologies that this was not the outcome to the issue that you hoped for.

Kind regards,

Serena

[Esnw33430]

Thanks Serena,

It is frustrating that an ISP is saying it cannot fix or really investigate latency and packet loss in its own network, its not like I'm asking for support to someone else's kit.

Andy the engineer that came to check the install here at home was great, but it seems once we are past the drop cable then there is nothing on support for anything other than a total outage. he obviously isnt able to check kit he has no access to but surely there is someone that monitors core infrastructure for loss and latency?

Is there any indication of what Virgin deem acceptable for loss / latency on a given package?

Might be worth calling that out so people know when they have an issue that exceeds those metrics then they know who to contact and what info is required, just had a quick look at the game package (with low latency and no packet loss being important for that kind of thing) but I cant seem to find any metrics for acceptable loss / latency for that either?

Thanks