cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Hub 3 / Compal CH7465-LG (TG2492LG) and CGNV4 Latency Cause

Datalink
Up to speed

Good Day Ladies and Gentlemen,

Greetings from the other side of the pond, so to speak.  Over the last few weeks I've been perusing various user forums across North America and Europe for issues related to Intel Puma 6 modem latency.  Of those forums, your Hub 3 stands out as yet another Puma 6 based modem where users see continuous latency no matter what site is used or what online game is played. Considering all of the problems that are on the go, the following information should be of interest to all Hub 3, Compal CH7465-LG and Hitron CGNV4 modem users.  There is much more to post regarding this, so this is a start, to alert VM users as to the real cause of the latency and hopefully engage the VM engineering staff, via the forum staff, with Arris.  I am surprised to see that there has been no mention on this board of users from other ISPs who are suffering the exact same issues with their modems, so, this may come as a surprise to some, and possibly old news to others.

So, the short story ........

The Hub 3 / Compal CH7465-LG (TG2492LG) & Hiton CGNV4 modems are Intel Puma 6 / 6 Media Gateway (MG) based modems.  These modems exhibit high latency to the modem and high latency thru the modem.  The latency affects all IPV4 and IPV6 protocols, so it will be seen on every internet application and game.  The basic cause is the processing of the data packets thru a CPU software based process instead of thru the hardware processor / accelerator.  It appears that a higher priority task runs periodically, causing the packet processing to halt, and then resume.  This is observed as latency in applications and in ping tests to the modem and beyond.  For the last several weeks, Hitron, along with Intel and Rogers Communications in Canada have been addressing the latency issue within the Hitron CGNxxx series modems.  To date, only the IPV4 ICMP latency has been resolved.  Although this is only one protocol, it does show that a Puma 6MG modem is capable of using the hardware processor / accelerator with good results.  Currently Rogers is waiting for further firmware updates from Hitron which should include an expanded list of resolved protocol latency issues.  For Arris modems, "Netdog" an Arris engineer indicated last week that Arris was onboard to address the issue for the Arris SB6190 modem.  That should be considered as good news for any Arris modem (read Hub 3) user as Arris should be able to port those changes over to other Puma 6/6MG modems fairly quickly.  This is not a trivial exercise and will probably take several weeks to accomplish.  Note that there is no guarantee at this point that it is possible to shift all packet processing to the hardware processor / accelerator without suffering from any packet loss side effects.  Time will tell if all of the technical issues can be resolved with the current hardware included in the Puma 6/6MG chipset.  Last night, Netdog loaded beta firmware on selected test modems on the Comcast Communications network.  As this was only done last night, it's too soon to tell what this version resolves and if it was successful or not.  Netdog has contacts with staff at Comcast, Rogers, Charter and Cox Communications to fan out beta versions and modifications for testing.  I'd say its time to add Virgin Media and/or Liberty Global to that group as well.

Recent activity:

Approx three weeks ago a DSLReports user, xymox1 started a thread where he reported high latency to an Arris SB6190 and illustrated that with numerous MultiPing plots.  This is the same latency that I and other users with Rogers communications have been dealing with for months so it came as no surprise.  As well as reporting via that thread, xymox1 took it upon himself to email several staff members at Arris, Intel, Cablelabs and others.  The result of that campaign was Netdog's announcement, last week, that Arris was fully engaged at resolving the issue.  That has led to last nights release of beta firmware, although as I indicated its too early to determine what the beta firmware resolves, if anything.


The original thread that xymox1 started is here:

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31079834-ALL-SB6190-is-a-terrible-modem-Intel-Puma-6-MaxLinear-mis...


Yesterday, DSLReports issued a news story covering the thread:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/The-Arris-SB6190-Modem-Puma-6-Chipset-Have-Some-Major-Issues-138...


Today, Arris responded:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Arris-Tells-us-Its-Working-With-Intel-on-SB6190-Puma6-Problems-1...


That response was also picked by Multichannel.com

http://www.multichannel.com/news/distribution/intel-arris-working-firmware-fix-sb6190-modem/409379

This is more news likely to appear in the next few days as additional tech and news staff pick up on this issue.


Hub 3 observations:

Like many others using a Puma 6/6MG modem, Hub 3 users are experiencing latency when they ping the modem, or ping a target outside of the home, game online or use low latency applications.  The common misconception is that this is Buffer Bloat. It's not. Its most likely a case of the packet processing stopping while the CPU processes a higher priority task.  The packet processing is done via the CPU no matter what mode the modem is operating in, modem mode or router mode and no matter what IPV4 or IPV6 protocol is used.  Normally, the latency is just that, latency.  The exception are UDP packets. In this case there is latency and packet loss.  The result of that is delayed and failed DNS lookups, and poor game performance for games that use UDP for player/server comms or player/player comms.


Can this be fixed?

So far, it appears that the answer is yes.  Rogers Communications issued beta firmware to a small group of test modems in October.  This version shifted the IPV4 ICMP processing from the CPU to the hardware processor / accelerator, resulting in greatly improved performance in ping latency.  At the present time we are waiting for the next version firmware which should shift other protocols over to the hardware processor / accelerator.  That can be seen in the following post:

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Getting_connected/message-id/369...

The details and results of last nights beta release to the Comcast group have yet to be seen.

At this point there is enough reading to keep most staff and users busy.  My intention is to post some of the history leading up to this point and instructions on how to detect the latency and packet loss.  This is not thru the use of a BQM.  I had hoped to post this all at once but events are moving much faster than I had thought they would.  For now this should suffice to get the ball rolling.

Below is a link to a post with a couple of HrPing plots from my 32 channel modem to the connected CMTS.  This shows the latency that is observed and reflects what others have posted in this forum using Pingplotter and HrPing.

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31106550-

HrPing is one of the freebie applications that can be used to monitor the latency to and thru the modem. 

Pingplots with Pingplotter which show the latency from my modem to the CMTS can be found in the first two to three rows of my online image library at Rogers Communications, located below.  They are essentially what the BQM would look like if you were able to zoom into the plot to the point where you could see the individual ping spikes.  Those ping spikes are common to Puma 6 and Puma 6MG modems.

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/media/gallerypage/user-id/829158

 

 

 [MOD EDIT: Subject heading changed to assist community]

4,478 REPLIES 4,478

"Having gone back down to the Hub 2 and my Asus, has most of the lag issues now been sorted on the Hub 3 for gaming? "

To summarise the thread so far, it's looking mostly good news with the new firmware, BUT it is apparently only being rolled out at the moment to some customers on 350 Mbps (and that in itself appears to be causing a lot of odd problems when customer upgrade, judging by the complaints in other threads).  Also, the crap wifi performance of the Hub 3 is unchanged.  If you're using any halfway capable router, you're still better off using that than the Hub 3's dismal wifi router.

I recommend you stick with what you've got until the position becomes clearer.

Thanks for the info.  It would be nice just to use the Hub 3 and have it all look neat under the unit.  Maybe not yet then.  

Hub 4 will probably arrive before it’s sorted. 


@Sky_Lord wrote:

Having gone back down to the Hub 2 and my Asus, has most of the lag issues now been sorted on the Hub 3 for gaming? I like the idea of using the Hub 3 along and getting rid of the Asus.   I won’t do it though unless the Hub 3 is now stable. 


You wouldn't want to get rid of your Asus regardless.  Even when the Hub 3.0 firmware is released, having the Asus doing routing is by far the best option.

 

Thanos
Settling in

I've been following this for a long time, as I struggle with the same issues. Having grown fed up with Virgin and their lack of action on the matter I decided to go. The chap I spoke to in the retention team (or whatever they call themselves), got onto tech support. Apparently the firmware will be released to all other customers by the end of the month.

Take it all with a pinch of salt, they could have just been trying to fob me off. It didn't change my decision, this has been going on for 2 years and all good will has gone out the window. But hey, maybe it is true and I'll see an improvement just before my notice period ends and I switch providers....

 

carltbf
Joining in

After having issues with online gaming for multiple years from using the SuperHub's, I can confirm that even though my main issues came from the SH3, the new firmware does the job! This evening I upgraded from VIVID 100 to VIVID 350 as soon as I found out about the firmware, and straight away the SuperHub updated itself to v9.1.116.603 once it had been restarted after getting off of the phone to VM. Here is my graph that I have been running all through today. The previous latency would never get any better than what the graph shows before the restart/upgrade and therefore restricted me for months on end. Super happy to finally see a fix. 

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/716536b6991747d131f4b756b439c0856edcec6e

fadyshenouda
Settling in

Right now using virgin in canada i've got issue that my ping suddenly jumps to +500 every five seconds i cant literally play any online games it happened yesterday too only me using the internet tho with 1 pc 


@fadyshenouda wrote:

Right now using virgin in canada i've got issue that my ping suddenly jumps to +500 every five seconds i cant literally play any online games it happened yesterday too only me using the internet tho with 1 pc 


This is the Virgin Media UK forum, you might have better luck over on DSLReports

AdamSee
Tuning in

I've got the firmware today - it's a real improvement.

41aed03f7c8753b1f320763434324c820477718f(1).png

 

I'd finished my 12 month contract, my connection had been especially bad. So much so that VOIP was dropping sounds every 2.5 seconds.

At 5pm today I upgraded to the 350mbps package (it was cheaper than my 200mbps package). Within a 20 minute period, the firmware had downloaded and updated to the x.603 version.

During the upgrade process I was chatting to the support lady, they'd recently had a meeting about firmware. It should be rolling out to everyone within the next 6-8 weeks. She also mentioned something about Netgear modems in the future - but I think she was confused.

It's taken a long time to get this sorted - an unacceptably long time - and still the modems aren't perfect. If you're a gamer, there's no doubt BT would be the better option because of the lower latencies across the network (by about 10ms, from what I've seen). If you're like me and you're more of a business user who wants higher download speeds and VOIP, Virgin has now become usable.


@neillythomas wrote:

 

With regard to testing my line, how would I do that?  I have to admit that the Hub is plugged in via an extension lead, but that can't be helped unfortunately...


@neillythomas, you might be better starting a new thread and post the symptoms plus a copy of the upstream/downstream power levels from the Hub 3's status pages (the ones you can get to before logging in) and waiting or trying to '@' a  virgin mod on the forum to take a look at the line. 

 I've seen a few posts where changing the hub has required an extra attenuator or some other intervention or there's a fault on the line.

So currently the only way to fix a known issue which has been ongoing for over a year is to upgrade to the top tier package, if this wasn't real I'd be laughing, what a complete and utter joke!

________________________________________________________________

In HA7. Billing Area 21.
Utilisation Fault
F003502423: Review Dates -> 07/10/2015 -> 02/12/2015 -> 20/01/2016 😞 -> Closed 🙂
Utilisation Fault F004873444: Review Dates -> 29/03/2017 😞 -> Closed 🙂
Utilisation Fault F005506920: Review Dates -> 09/08/2017 -> 08/06/2018 -> 13/06/2018 -> 11/07/2018 -> 12/09/2018 -> 29/05/2019 😞 -> Open 😞