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FAO Hub 5 users

Connorcoolbeans
Tuning in

Hi everyone. Just wondering for those that have the Hub 5 already (and that use it for gaming) does the new superhub 5 help with the latency issues that the previous superhubs suffered with because they use the intel puma chipsets rather than the broadcom chip that is in the new superhub 5? 

 

5 REPLIES 5

Andrew-G
Alessandro Volta

@Connorcoolbeans wrote:

Hi everyone. Just wondering for those that have the Hub 5 already (and that use it for gaming) does the new superhub 5 help with the latency issues that the previous superhubs suffered with because they use the intel puma chipsets rather than the broadcom chip that is in the new superhub 5? 


No, categorically not.  The range of typical peak latency fringing on a BQM is slightly lower with the Hub 5 vs Hub 3, but minimum latency is actually higher, so the net effect is much the same.  There's some direct comparison charts in this old post of mine on the same subject.  

In my view the "broadcom versus intel" debate has been long settled by the firmware fix that Intel issued and VM implemented over 3 years ago, but there's remaining die-hards who won't accept that - they've formed a rigid opinion, and won't change, prattling on about buffer-bloat, the virtues of a tin foil hat, and the danger of vaccines.  In reality there's now little to choose between Broadcom and Intel (or rather, successor companies) for the DOCSIS processor, and likewise little to choose between Hub 3, 4 or 5 in terms of connection quality, other than some wifi firmware bugs that affect the Hub 5.

The big issue for gamers on VM is simply that DOCSIS is a now a dated technology that doesn't offer anything like the latency you'd see on a true FTTP optical connection.  If you're lucky enough to have VM's latest FTTP + DOCSIS through the wall connection which is true for about 20% of customers then that greatly minimises those problems, for the other 80% of VM customers then my BQM from last Saturday is probably quite representative.  If you're one of the unlucky few on an over-utilised network segment, then your latency at peak periods will be materially worse, and there's not much evidence that different hubs perform differently in those situations.

I had avoided upgrading our speed to keep the Hub 3 and Hub 4 away from our home network due to Intel Puma horror stories, as we had a Super Hub 2, then a house move forced us into replacing the SH2 with a Hub 3, then we changed our services and now have a Hub 4 (all hubs always used in modem mode). Our service is used a lot for multiplayer gaming and compared to using the SH2 in modem mode for many years, then the H3 and now H4 also in modem mode, I haven't noticed any adverse effects to online gaming that I could attribute to the Intel Puma hardware.
SH2 modem mode | AC86U router | AC68U node

Thank you very much for the detailed response. I am in the process of setting up a new quality monitor with think broadband after changing my router but from memory the graph posted by yourself of the 80% of customers is similar to what I had previously. Where you mentioned Virgin Medias latest FTTP + DOCSIS, is this something that is being rolled out gradually to customers or do you need to live in a certain area? If so is there anyway to check when I could possibly expect to receive this? 

TIA


@Connorcoolbeans wrote:

Thank you very much for the detailed response. I am in the process of setting up a new quality monitor with think broadband after changing my router but from memory the graph posted by yourself of the 80% of customers is similar to what I had previously. Where you mentioned Virgin Medias latest FTTP + DOCSIS, is this something that is being rolled out gradually to customers or do you need to live in a certain area? If so is there anyway to check when I could possibly expect to receive this? 

TIA


VM are in the process of upgrading all customers to true optical FTTP but that won't be completed until 2028 (and later for programme slippage).  There's no way of finding out when your area might be done, and whilst there's large scale trials going on I don't believe the "general issue" roll out is anywhere near started.   For the VM DOCSIS + FTTP currently on offer, that's a technology referred to as RFoG, and is used in newer build areas over the past few years.  You can't request it, and the usual way of knowing if you've got it is the shape of the box on the outside wall - if it's an 8 inch square, that's this RFoG system.  If it's about 8 inches high by four wide then that's a standard coax omnibox. 

Andrew-G

As someone who've previously had VM in an HFC/coax only area (area ref 04) for many years (when they were known as Comtel) and now in an area with FTTP/RFoG (recently expanded/project lightning, last year, area 31) I can honestly say IMHO that RFoG while still not ideal for latency due to Docsis is a lot more stable and reliable than the older coax, but it does have it's downsides too. None of this should be surprising at all given how things tech-wise move so fast, but the sooner coax is replaced the better.

On RFoG, latency is a lot more balanced and does not spike as much unless I really push the connection, although I suppose having configured a hard limit of 350mbps with queue management is helping this somewhat. 


@Andrew-G wrote:
In my view the "broadcom versus intel" debate has been long settled by the firmware fix that Intel issued and VM implemented over 3 years

The hub 3 still does get very overwhelmed if you push a lot of UDP packets (in), it gets backlogged very badly and it CRAWLS - and this is directly connected via modem mode. So I'm really hoping the hub 5 is an improvement but I'm not getting hopeful. We weren't with VM before the 'fix' so I can only assume it was much much worse back then. I wonder if anyone reading this thread has a hub 5 & RFoG can test to see if this is still the case.


TV, Phone and Broadband using the Hub 3.0 in modem mode, with a Newifi D2 running Openwrt (FTTP/RFoG).