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Message 11 of 22
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Re: Long Delay receiving emails

As the original poster, I have hopefully reactivated my thread by removing the 'helpful answer' tag (though gave kudo's to the helpful answer instead).

It seemed ok for a little while but I notice it is reoccurring again, and see others are also posting with VM staff and their domain / mail forwarding host (123.reg in my case).

My first post contains a screenshot relevant for VM, and I can provide further delayed mail headers as required, though it looks like its the same for others between the same mailcore servers and AS9143.net servers.

Whether its VM's issue to resolve or not by reviewing their mail relays simultaneous connections settings (I work for a large IT company managing messaging systems for a fair few large corporations and have needed to do similar between Cisco Ironports and MS Exchange servers in the past) 

I am a residential user of VM, and my personal incoming mail traffic is minimal (10-20 a DAY) so its not as if I am a heavy bandwidth email user and,as others its the receipt emails/multifactor authentication related emails that expire or are required asap for support or access codes that become useless that makes this really a problem.

I can test via 123reg to VM. When I can get time will try to point a specific email address in my Domain DNS forwarding settings to route to a non-VM mailbox  (o365/Gmail) etc to compare if the delay from 123reg mailcore servers occurs to other non-vm mail host servers, but I read threads here that mention other providers with the same delays to VM already, so would like to escalate this to the VM messaging team.

 

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Message 12 of 22
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Re: Long Delay receiving emails

Thank you for your post PWitkowski and sorry to hear of your ongoing email issues.

 

We'd just like to confirm a few things about the issue at hand.

 

Could we please confirm if this also happens through web-mail or is it just when using a client (Outlook/Apple mail/Gmail etc)?

Is this occurring with one or multiple email address' on the account in question? 

 

I can see that some community members have also offered their help in regards to this, our very helpful super-user @ravenstar68 may have other things for you to try in regards to email issues so I'll tag him in this post for you. 

 

Thank you, Emily.

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Message 13 of 22
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Re: Long Delay receiving emails

HI Emily,

Sufficient analysis has been done here and in other related threads recently to show that when the delays occur it is between 123.reg and VM servers and nothing to do with Mail clients

As an experiment I've set up a 3rd party relay so mail gores from 123.reg to the relay and from the relay to VM this is working with very short transit times.

This is a bodge not a solution and of course increases the amout of internet traffic unneccessarily. VM and 123.rg need thier heads banging together to sort out a solution. @ravenstar68  makes valid points both in explaining the problem and why quick fixes might be undesiriable but fails to suggest what the solution is. Fair enough as a volunteer it is not his role to do so.

This issue needs escalation within VM to an executive level where 123.reg can be approached officially to work out a mutually acceptable solution.

Bob

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Message 14 of 22
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Re: Long Delay receiving emails

@Emily_G 

In reality the postmasters at 123reg and Liberty Global need to talk to each other about this.

This is not something that users can deal with, however my points on mail forwarding are still valid.  I personally invested in a VPS running Linux 18 on 1&1 and set up my own mail server using Mail in a Box

https://mailinabox.email/

This allows me to run my email domain (actually I run three on the same box) with mutiple users.  It is set up to be as simple as possible, the hardest aspects for me were removing password access from SSH and setting up Glue and DNSSEC records, especially as 123reg didn't support the latter.

The only "drawback" is that because it's designed to be relatively foolproof, is that it uses the same private keys for all of it's DKIM signatures and it doesn't allow you to change the configuration.

Tim

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Message 15 of 22
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Re: Long Delay receiving emails

Some thoughts on this subject -

First – a history lesson -

On December 6, 2016, GoDaddy announced its acquisition of Host Europe Group which had grown out of GX Networks and Pipex in the UK. HEG included 123-reg (large UK domain registrar) , Heart Internet (UK hosting), Host Europe (German hosting), Webfusion (UK and Spanish hosting), RedCoruna (Spanish hosting), Mesh Digital and Domainbox (international domain names).]

Some other GoDaddy acquisitions since then -.

  • On March 22, 2017, GoDaddy acquired Sucuri.

  • On January 23, 2018, GoDaddy acquired Main Street Hub.

  • On September 24, 2018, GoDaddy acquired Plasso.

  • On September 25, 2018, GoDaddy acquired Cognate.

  • On April 10, 2019, GoDaddy acquired Sellbrite.

In 2018, GoDaddy became the world's largest domain host by market share, with over 62 million registered domains at that time (current estimate is 75 million – of which, for example, 123-Reg’s estimated 3.5 million is but a small percentage).

In March 2018 Amazon Web Services (AWS) announced that GoDaddy is migrating the vast majority of its infrastructure to AWS as part of a multi-year transition.

Second - , some observations -

However, it is still not clear what the AWS/GoDaddy relationship means in the long term. Statements like this -

GoDaddy is not migrating the domains it manages to AWS,” said Dan Race, GoDaddy’s VP of communications. “GoDaddy will continue to manage all customer domains. Domain management is obviously a core business for GoDaddy.” That was quoted in -

https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/28/godaddy-to-move-most-of-its-infrastructure-to-aws-not-including-do...

- and suggests that GoDaddy’s VPs don’t really understand what it all means yet.

The former GoDaddy CEO (Scott Wagner) obviously no longer has to understand – he stood down (that’s a euphemism for being sacked I think) in August 2019 following poor financial results this year (a net loss of $12.6m (£10.4m) in its second-quarter results).

Now why do you think the world’s largest domain host and one of the world’s biggest companies are working towards some sort of shared future? Any accountant will tell you it’s usually called – economies of scale – and sometimes a precursor to a full takeover.

I wonder if the current network delay problems are a consequence of AWS and GoDaddy starting to reorganise some of their global traffic by pushing more data down fewer pipes. If that results in a small group of servers being detected as a significant source of spam emails then it is probable that some ISPs will put limitations, or even a full block, on that source.

If we have a look at the details for a random server mentioned in one of the threads on this subject, - 94.136.40.146 - we find that its Autonomous System Number is allocated to GoDaddy and this server appears to have started life as a Webfusion server back in 2008. Webfusion became part of Host Europe Group in 2009. GoDaddy bought HEG in 2016. All abuse reports for the following whole server range - 94.136.40.0 – 94.136.40.255 are now directed to - 123-reg.co.uk. There is probably a continuous cycle of re-organising the many companies and hardware assets which GoDaddy has acquired over the years.

 @ravenstar68  has pointed to a recent article on the downside of (so-called) forwarding of email (it’s really re-sending) which can otherwise be described as - “kicking the email spam-problem-can down the road for the unfortunate recipient email services to resolve”. Contribution by domain host forwarder to global spam problem resolution? – not a lot. There is no definitive agreement about what level of spam transmission warrants what level of block on the sender/forwarder. It’s down to joint agreement between the parties. To reach any agreement they must both engage in a dialogue.

Finally, is it all in the numbers? -

If VM receives 10,000 emails directly from, say,100 email sources scattered around the UK, and its’ spam filters detect spam content in 20 percent of emails, VM is unlikely to block or delay any of the sending servers (ie 2000 spam from 100 sources = 20 from each).

If those same 10,000 emails are routed via a “forwarding” service and re-sent onwards to VM, and VM’s filters detect the same 20% of spam content, then it may well decide to take action against the small number of servers (owned by the re-sender) which are sending those 2000 spam emails (ie 2000 spam from,say, 2 servers = 1000 each).

Note that the statistical data for global email consistently shows spam emails accounting for more than 50% of ALL email traffic. So the 20% used in the above example may be on the low side. Have a browse here - https://www.statista.com/statistics/420391/spam-email-traffic-share/ for stats on the subject.

 

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Message 16 of 22
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Re: Long Delay receiving emails

It may not be obvious from @BillC45 comprehensive analysis above, but the delays occur not just with forwarding or resending through the go daddy servers but for emails sent direct from for eg 123reg SMTP servers.

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Message 17 of 22
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Re: Long Delay receiving emails

just to say I am also experiencing this problem of long delays from 123 Reg emails that are forwarded. They told me it must be a problem with NTL addresses and not their end. In fact they sent me a test email to my ntlworld email address while I was talking to them on the phone, and it arrived the following day. Emails via my domains (only about 20 emails a day) take 10mins to 3days to arrive. I've bought concert tickets that arrived in my inbox after the concert, loads of Black Friday deals that arrived on Saturday and Sunday and had expired. And Cyber Monday deals arriving on Tuesday and Wednesday! Have sent various test messages which arrive late, and out of sequence too, very confusing. I had this problem in the past when my domains were with another provider, so I switched to 123 Reg this year and emails started arriving instantaneously. Now I am getting the same delays with 123 Reg! Spoke to Sean at Virgin and he didn't know the solution. I get "account error" messages each day on Macmail such as "The attempt to read the data from the server 'map.virginmedia.com' failed". Also I forwarded one of my ntlworld messages today and got a VM603 message saying SPAM content found ?!?!?  I had to delete the forwarded part of the message for it to send. 

 

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Message 18 of 22
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Re: Long Delay receiving emails

Have a look here

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Email/Long-Delay-receiving-emails-forwarded-from-123-reg/m-p/41...

For a possible workround whilst VM techs are sorting out the root of the problem.

Bob

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Message 19 of 22
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Re: Long Delay receiving emails

thanks for pointing out that workaround Bob. I know how to forward emails from 123 reg to Gmail. But Im not sure how to forward from Gmail to NTLworld mail, but Im sure I can find the button.  I do hope they get to the bottom of it. Its bizarre that even emails to ntlworld are being delayed too ! Not just forwarded emails. Surely Virgin don't put spam filters on ntlworld.com email addresses? who knows . Always seems to be people with NTLworld and Blue Yonder email addresses that suffer on here, not those with Virgin ones 

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Message 20 of 22
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Re: Long Delay receiving emails

SJ22

Go to the gmail account , click on the gear wheel then select settings and then forwarding.

Enable forwarding and enter your ntl email address.

 

HTH Bob

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