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bransons_anus
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Speed and intermittent drop out issues: A valid reason to cancel without being charged?

We suffer speeds as low as 3-7mb, and intermittent drop outs, every day, and have done for over 30 days, but Virgin have told me they don't give any speed guarantees and only accept total loss of service as a basis for agreeing to cancel the contract and waive the £211 early cancellation fee. The guy offered me some sort of smart box bolt-on for an extra £5 a month instead, and said that therefore my complaint isn't 'unresolved' - I was just unwilling to accept their resolution! Otherwise, I have to just live with it and report the state of the buttons on my router each time (daily) that it happens. I'm about 2-3 months into an 18-month contract, so I'm trapped otherwise!

Does anyone know of a basis for getting Virgin to agree to waive the termination fee, since apparently interrupted and poor service is irrelevant?

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Andrew-G
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Message 2 of 21
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Re: Speed and intermittent drop out issues: A valid reason to cancel without being charged?

You appear to have duplicate posts for this, and that won't endear you to the people who might assist, but I'm feeling charitable and I'll ignore it.

VM do offer a speed guarantee, but only over wired (ethernet) connected devices.  How are you measuring speeds?

 

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bransons_anus
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Message 3 of 21
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Re: Speed and intermittent drop out issues: A valid reason to cancel without being charged?

Hi Andrew-G,

We're measuring speeds with apps and web services on our mobile phones (as we can move around the house). All our devices are wireless in the house. The Virgin man says they only guarantee up to the house, so any speed or intermittency issues beyond that point are effectively outside the contracted service. But the common denominator is VIrgin.

I'll certainly try to measure via a wired connection, but I wonder what the end game is: (Rhetorically:) Do I need to record each drop out, it's duration and speed? Won't Virgin just shrug their shoulders unless I tie them up in hard, data-based evidence that, frankly, I don't have the 'bandwidth' for? Really, I just want out.

I don't suppose you know of any other early cancellation justifications that are generally deemed to be valid?

Sorry about the duplicate post - that's beginner's error: I posted it into 'mobile phones', which is the wrong place for it. I'll remove that one.

Thanks for your help.

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Andrew-G
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Message 4 of 21
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Re: Speed and intermittent drop out issues: A valid reason to cancel without being charged?

Well, the VM technician is correct, that the speed guarantee is only for wired connections, and that's because there's too many variables with wireless.  As one example, brick is a fabulous blocker of wifi signals, so a house with brick internal walls will always see lower speeds than a house with partition walls, or lightweight block walls.

In my mind, we've not yet established if the fault is poor wireless, or poor broadband.  If you would, connect to the hub by clicking on this link http://192.168.0.1/  That should pull up the log in page for the hub.  But don't log in, just click on the link "Check router status"  That'll bring up a window with five tabs.  Open the Downstream tab.  Select all the text (Ctrl-A if using a keyboard), copy it (Ctrl-C), then paste it (Ctrl-V) into a reply here as text, not screenshots.  Post that, do the same for the Upstream and Network log.  You'll get an error message when you post the Network log, just click on "post" a second time.  Then we can check for any obvious problems with power, noise or error counts.

If that's all good, there's other broadband checks, but the finger of doubt starts to turn to wifi.  The end game with poor wifi is that the hub is a cheapo device that works well enough in ideal conditions for undemanding users.  If it isn't working for you, the optimal solution that many people (me included) have taken is to bite the bullet and invest about £100 in our own router or mesh wifi setup.  Can you cancel without exit penalty because of poor wifi?  According to the contract, once you're outside your 14 day cooling off period, no.  You might get a different outcome by complaining and then escalating to the industry arbitration scheme, because there is a requirement in consumer law for the service to be delivered with reasonable skill and care, and a hub that won't deliver competent wifi probably falls short of that.  But complaints through to arbitration is a slow process, and should be a last resort - you're talking as much as four months start to finish.  But even talking of that is getting ahead of ourselves - post the hub status data, we can see if that shows anything, and move from there?

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bransons_anus
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Message 5 of 21
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Re: Speed and intermittent drop out issues: A valid reason to cancel without being charged?

Wow - thank you so much Andrew-G. That's clear and very thorough. I'm going to try and do that now....

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bransons_anus
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Message 6 of 21
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Re: Speed and intermittent drop out issues: A valid reason to cancel without being charged?

PasswordShow
 


 
 
 
Router status
Downstream bonded channelsChannel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID
12350000002.237256 qam13
21390000004.637256 qam1
31470000004.637256 qam2
41550000004.537256 qam3
51630000004.337256 qam4
61710000004.137256 qam5
71790000003.737256 qam6
81870000003.537256 qam7
91950000003.237256 qam8
10203000000337256 qam9
112110000002.737256 qam10
122190000002.538256 qam11
132270000002.237256 qam12
142430000001.737256 qam14
152510000001.737256 qam15
162590000001.237256 qam16
172670000001.538256 qam17
18275000000137256 qam18
192830000000.937256 qam19
202910000000.537256 qam20
212990000001.437256 qam21
223070000001.437256 qam22
233150000001.737256 qam23
243230000001.537256 qam24


Downstream bonded channelsChannel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
1Locked37.6140
2Locked37.6220
3Locked37.6240
4Locked37.6280
5Locked37.6230
6Locked37.3230
7Locked37.690
8Locked37.6170
9Locked37.690
10Locked37.690
11Locked37.390
12Locked38.690
13Locked37.3140
14Locked37.6100
15Locked37.6130
16Locked37.3100
17Locked38.6170
18Locked37.6180
19Locked37.6230
20Locked37.370
21Locked37.3130
22Locked37.6191
23Locked37.6160
24Locked37.3160
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bransons_anus
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Message 7 of 21
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Re: Speed and intermittent drop out issues: A valid reason to cancel without being charged?

PasswordShow
 


 
 
 
Router status
Upstream bonded channelsChannel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID
13940000041.5512064 qam9
23260000041.3512064 qam10
34620000042512064 qam8
42580000041512032 qam12


Upstream bonded channelsChannel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts
1ATDMA0000
2ATDMA0000
3ATDMA0000
4ATDMA0000
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bransons_anus
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Message 8 of 21
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Re: Speed and intermittent drop out issues: A valid reason to cancel without being charged?

PasswordShow
 


 
 
 
Router status
Network LogTime Priority Description
20/04/2021 12:50:58criticalReceived Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:46:59Warning!RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:46:56criticalSYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:46:55Warning!RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:46:55criticalSYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:46:55Warning!RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:56Warning!Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:51criticalSYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:51Warning!RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:51criticalSYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:50Warning!RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:41criticalSYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:41Warning!RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:41criticalSYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:28Warning!Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:24criticalSYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:23Warning!RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:23criticalSYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:22Warning!RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/04/2021 12:43:22criticalSYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
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Andrew-G
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Message 9 of 21
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Re: Speed and intermittent drop out issues: A valid reason to cancel without being charged?

Power levels are OK-ish, error counts are fine, signal to noise ratio good.  But your network log looks like a problem, unless you were intentionally restarting your hub about 12:40 this afternoon?  Even then, it shouldn't have filled it's entire register with that collection of serious errors just from a restart.

At the moment I'm still not confident whether this is a wireless or a broadband issue.  To dig a bit deeper, can you setup a BQM over at https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality that'll show what's going on with your VM connection.  Post a link to a live, shared graph here and we'll see what's happening.  Usually needs to run for the better part of 24 hours before we can draw reasonable conclusions, but the live graph will continuously update so you can post the link immediately.

 

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bransons_anus
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Message 10 of 21
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Re: Speed and intermittent drop out issues: A valid reason to cancel without being charged?

Thank you, Andrew-G. 

The link is here: 

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/bdb5559fb89164cd71deed0a4fcf9b6de097c676

We didn't do a re-start at 12:40pm, so that log is showing the router in normal operation (though we did do a restart later that day, at around 5:30pm).

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