Virgin Media Community

[EMack]

I see lots of people with problems here - no surprise for a support forum! 

But, usually does a VM cable broadband connection give a good a stable connection? I have my own router/WiFi, so the Super Hub WiFi isn't really an issue. I'm look for stable video conferencing, and perhaps some online gaming. There are 4 of us in the house watching TV over streaming services, but have no problems with the 45Mbps/8Mbps measured speeds that we get from BT VDSL connection.

Will a VM M200 likely be a noticeable change for us?

[JitteryPinger]

Typically in areas by universities or mass shared accommodations the Virgin networks are very busy so suffer congestion issues and if you need stable latency for gaming I would stay with the VDSL connection.

If you want more bandwidth or your own connection I would suggest looking at getting another VDSL connection.

[EMack]

One of the attractions of VM is that I'd expect a lower ping time - we're on 18mS via BT. What's typical on VM?

Would lower than 18mS be helpful for video-conf?

[JitteryPinger]

No chance it would hell lower with Virgin....

Video.conference won't just rely on your ping anyway, for ping and latency you really don't want to be moving to cable.

If you wish for mo explain why just ask.

[EMack]

Yes please - I'm interested to understand the details 🙂

[JitteryPinger · Accepted solution]

So with Cable Broadband (Virgin Media) and DSL (FTTC) the fibre comes into the local area and terminates and then existing copper/aluminum based network it then used to connect tot hat fibre however they way way that is done between the two different technologies is the crucial point.

Cable Broadband has its Fibre terminated at a nearby 'Node' node then feed an RF signal to a series of distribution cabinets in the local area using amplifiers and coaxial cabling, and from these cabinets the signal is then split up in to varying numbers (32-300+ connections) to feed to properties where it 'can' then be split again to serve multi dwelling units or in shared houses.

I've found some areas in the past where cabinets have been over filled with connections to the point they will not close or stay closed.

Now this is where I tell you hoe Openreach's FTTC connects,

Now while the the fibre only still comes into the the area 'it goes directly' to the cabinet where each properties line connects, (I like to call this a more direct connection) each line to a property consists on a pair of copper cores (or legs) the pair will be then run from the Fibre cabinet, through a combiner (to get telephone signal added into the line) and then continue running through to your property and terminate into a NTE (Master Socket)

The difference too connections,

So differences very, The pro's and con's of speed  are that because Virgin Media's network uses high gauge cabling and amplifies the signals that higher bandwidth frequencies and more of them will reach the modem and in return give a lot more bandwidth to play with where as Openreach FTTC uses lower gauge cabling and lower end frequencies and doesn't amplify the signal as it moves through the local network so the distance it has to come from a cabinet to a house impacts how much of the frequency the modem will be able to hear and this determines how much speed it will get.

However because of the 'direct connection' of FTTC the line is less susceptible to issues from neighboring connections and in return provides much more stable and lower latency and more more stable bandwidth, with Cable connections bandwidth that your hub connects to is then shared at a local level as well as at the fibre node,

Latency is often less stable because of 'jitter' caused by other connections and their activities and bandwidth can very up and down depending on the demands in the local area and if demands gets to busy in either downstream or upstream directions the latency will rise substantially and this will cause a lot of issues for most services and the connection.

Currently with everybody working and schooling from home and pretty much living lives on a video call, upstream bandwidth has become more important than ever, this is an area where Virgin's network is struggling a lot due to the limited bandwidth available to share with all those speed hungry users, because when upstream becomes saturated download also suffers as it has to communicated when its downloading and if communications are delayed so is the download, a lot of connections will see packet loss come into play when downloading and uploading on a busy network segment, this will cause applications to struggle with communication too.

Stability is why I recommend Openreach products, even ADSL sometimes, in an idle state n FTTC line will keep a very stable latency (no jitter) and a Virgin connection will show instabilities based on the people in the area around it.

Take my connections below for example, By clicking 'Hub3 BQM and Hub 4 BQM' you will see a lot of blue and green spikes, now these connections are currently idle as nobody has been in or connected in these properties, now look at the 'EE BQM' and see that while it has spikes, these have in fact been caused by heavy usage from myself and a house of 4 all weekend streaming football, downloading and streaming music and YouTube. and from 4am this morning until 10am has been sitting idle.

This line only has access to 65mbps download and 20mbps but yet out performs my 350mb download and 36mb upload 'sold' connection.

I will add some pictures to sow examples from the text above.

[JitteryPinger]

Virgin HFC - FTTN LayoutOpenreach FTTC or FTTP Layout

[JitteryPinger]

Over-connected cab

As mentioned earlier in the thread, areas with shared accommodation often end up with Virgin Media cabinets looking like this, not the cable splitters added in the cab to accommodate more connections that it was designed.

[JitteryPinger]

Openreach FTTC Cabinet

For more information give this link a look https://www.thinkbroadband.com/how-broadband-works

[EMack]

Wow, thanks lots of info - I've read it now!

Obviously things will vary from area to area, and I've been able to find out a little more about what is happening close to me:

1/ I remember seeing open VM cabinets a few years back - I assumed they were vandalised. It was one of the reasons I moved away from VM because it didn't look secure or reliable. I took a walk around yesterday and in my area the cabinets were all safely shut, perhaps with tougher doors than before. (Perhaps to keep all the cables from busting out!)

2/ I live very close to the Southampton Uni campus, away from the halls of residence, and near to lots of private houses that are HMOs shared by students. I teach at the university, and I know that some of my students are choosing to work from their parents home, so there are fewer students around than there are usually. Obviously all activity is now remote where possible. 

3/ I was able to set up a BQM on my next door neighbours VM M100 connection - it looked better than I expected 😄

4/ Latency can be caused by issues anywhere in the network I think? You explained how in VM this is more likely to occur close to my house because of the technology *and* the fact that VM have faster speeds to each house. (I think?). Equally over on the other forums there are people upset that BT latency spikes (seen inside their home) when they are streaming TV - I guess that is either due to how their in-home router works, or maybe something outside?  (And, I guess different ISPs will provide different equipment and shape the traffic differently?) I don't have a BQM for my BT connection, but some pings indicates max latency comparable to the spikes on that chart. Min maybe *slightly* lower?

Mon 1 Feb 09:15:01 GMT 2021
--- 8.8.4.4 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 22ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 16.905/19.319/38.657/6.448 ms

Mon 1 Feb 10:30:02 GMT 2021
--- 8.8.4.4 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 23ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 16.837/18.823/27.908/3.421 ms

Mon 1 Feb 10:35:01 GMT 2021
--- 8.8.4.4 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 22ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 16.854/19.460/24.857/2.860 ms

Mon 1 Feb 10:40:01 GMT 2021
--- 8.8.4.4 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 22ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 16.914/17.082/17.424/0.218 ms