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JohnBeatle
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Latency issues with live online Jamming session!

Hi All,

I've started this topic of discussion for those members who are musicians and jam with their other bandmates online using Jamkazam, Jamulus and others.

If you jam online, you will know that a low network latency is critical to ensure we appear to play in real time. If using jamulus the idea is that all band mates connect to a central server which is typically a AWS/Google server based in your country of residence. The aim is to have a round trip latency of under 30ms for no noticeable lag.

So, this is where my problems start.

With my new M200 package, the latency to a AWS server in London using Jamulus is > 50mS. I've tested a few servers and found a 50 to 60ms typical return.  Because of this, it is virtually impossible for me to jam on the VM network.  I have tested my hardware setup on another provider, and the latency wasn't as bad as this. I've strugged to get through to anyone @ VM technical team to discuss this issue so putting it out there to the community to see if any one else is in a similar position?

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MikeRobbo
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Re: Latency issues with live online Jamming session!

Can you set up a Broadband Quality Monitor (BQM) at thinkbroadband.com - this will give you an insight into what is happening with the signal at the other side of the Hub, it will take a few hours to get any kind of trend showing although you should post the link straight away.

Post a link to your BQM on here.

Instructions for posting BQM Link

Under your BQM graph are two links in red.

Click the lower link (Share Live Graph) then click generate.

Copy the text in the Direct Link box, beware, there may be more text than you can see.

On here click the Link icon (2 links chain to the left of the camera icon)

In the URL box paste the link you copied and in the ‘text to display’ box write My BQM then click OK - you can post the link straight away.

Then

 

Can you please

Type 192.168.0.1 (192.168.100.1 in Modem mode) into your browser URL bar and press enter. 

Hub 2 & 3 When the page appears DO NOT LOG IN but click ‘Check Router Status’.

Hub 4 When the page appears LOG IN then click ‘Check Router Status’.

Copy and paste the contents of the Downstream, Upstream and Network Log tabs onto here, if you get a yellow warning click the Post button again. Use one post for each tab if you wish. Please do not use screen grabs.

A Guru will be along soon to decipher the info.


*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
BT Smart Hub 2 with 70Mbs Download,18Mbs Upload, 9.17ms Latency & 0.35ms Jitter.
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JohnBeatle
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Re: Latency issues with live online Jamming session!

Hi Mike,

Thank you for the reply. Here is the thinkbroadband metric:


https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/eb75c0453268c80b5ab9efc723c0e29545...

 

I can tell already from these early results that the variation between the low and high latency values would cause problems with live jamming. Will post the router status shortly. 

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JohnBeatle
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Re: Latency issues with live online Jamming session!

Downstream bonded channels
Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID
1 419000000 2.9 39 256 qam 32
2 203000000 4 40 256 qam 9
3 211000000 4 38 256 qam 10
4 219000000 3.7 40 256 qam 11
5 227000000 3.7 40 256 qam 12
6 235000000 3.5 40 256 qam 13
7 243000000 3.2 40 256 qam 14
8 251000000 3.4 40 256 qam 15
9 259000000 3 38 256 qam 16
10 267000000 3.4 40 256 qam 17
11 275000000 2.9 40 256 qam 18
12 283000000 3.2 40 256 qam 19
13 291000000 3 38 256 qam 20
14 299000000 3.5 38 256 qam 21
15 307000000 3 40 256 qam 22
16 315000000 3.5 40 256 qam 23
17 323000000 3.2 38 256 qam 24
18 363000000 3.2 38 256 qam 25
19 371000000 3 38 256 qam 26
20 379000000 3 40 256 qam 27
21 387000000 3 40 256 qam 28
22 395000000 3 38 256 qam 29
23 403000000 3 38 256 qam 30
24 411000000 3 40 256 qam 31


Downstream bonded channels
Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
1 Locked 39.8 1 0
2 Locked 40.3 4 0
3 Locked 38.9 9 0
4 Locked 40.3 4 0
5 Locked 40.3 6 0
6 Locked 40.3 7 0
7 Locked 40.3 6 0
8 Locked 40.3 9 0
9 Locked 38.9 7 0
10 Locked 40.9 5 0
11 Locked 40.3 0 0
12 Locked 40.3 5 0
13 Locked 38.9 6 0
14 Locked 38.6 6 0
15 Locked 40.3 2 0
16 Locked 40.3 6 0
17 Locked 38.9 6 0
18 Locked 38.9 1 0
19 Locked 38.9 10 0
20 Locked 40.3 5 0
21 Locked 40.9 5 0
22 Locked 38.9 6 0
23 Locked 38.9 6 0
24 Locked 40.3 14 0

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JohnBeatle
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Re: Latency issues with live online Jamming session!

Upstream bonded channels
Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID
1 46199983 4.325 5120 64 qam 3
2 32600019 4.325 5120 64 qam 5
3 39400000 4.325 5120 64 qam 4
4 53700019 4.325 5120 64 qam 2


Upstream bonded channels
Channel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts
1 ATDMA 0 0 0 0
2 ATDMA 0 0 0 0
3 ATDMA 0 0 0 0
4 ATDMA 0 0 0 0

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JohnBeatle
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Re: Latency issues with live online Jamming session!

Network Log

Time Priority Description

18/10/2020 19:16:21 notice LAN login Success;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:92:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
18/10/2020 17:38:15 critical No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:92:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
18/10/2020 14:04:55 notice LAN login Success;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:92:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
18/10/2020 09:18:43 critical No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:92:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
17/10/2020 15:01:41 notice LAN login Success;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:92:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 00:02:22 critical No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:92:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
17/10/2020 13:49:37 notice DHCP Renew - lease parameters tftp file-cmreg-vmdg505-bbt060-b.cm modified;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:92:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
17/10/2020 13:49:37 Error DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
17/10/2020 12:52:51 notice LAN login Success;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:92:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
17/10/2020 12:52:27 Warning! LAN login FAILED : Incorrect Username / Password / ConnectionType;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:92:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
17/10/2020 12:32:53 notice LAN login Success;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:92:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
17/10/2020 12:24:40 notice SW download Successful - Via Config file
17/10/2020 12:22:49 notice SW Download INIT - Via Config file
01/01/1970 00:01:38 critical No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:5f:86:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
14/10/2020 06:46:32 notice Unit has been restored to factory defaults from a software issued command;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:01:5c:33:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
14/10/2020 06:38:48 notice SW download Successful - Via Config file
14/10/2020 06:33:7 notice SW Download INIT - Via Config file
01/01/1970 00:01:32 critical No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:01:5c:33:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
24/09/2020 08:27:41 Warning! Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:01:5c:xx:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
24/09/2020 08:27:37 critical SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=40:0d:10:e1:xx:xx;CMTS-MAC=00:01:5c:9b:xx:xx;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

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HarveyMears
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Re: Latency issues with live online Jamming session!

Interesting!

I have tried several low latency software options with Jamulus as good as any. However latency is too high and jitter is too wide.

I have setup a local server when I access via external IP address it is still high latency.

Is this an inherent issue with the DOCSIS coding?

My experience with the @VM technical team on other matters is such that I shall not even try to open a discussion for this specialist requirement.

If you do get a glimmer of light on this topic then please post here.

Wishing you a low latency New Year
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JohnBeatle
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Re: Latency issues with live online Jamming session!

Hello fellow Jamulus friend!  Just to update you, I use an amazon ECS instance when running my jamulus server. Running your own server at home where your band buddies can connect not to is not advised on VM simply because Latency on VM network is too high. raised a ticket with VM back in October regarding the latency issue, still await a call from their technical team. 

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HarveyMears
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Re: Latency issues with live online Jamming session!

Thanks for the reply JohnDeadle.

Looks like I need to learn about Amazon ECS next 🙂

What latency are you getting with that approach?

Diolch,

Harvey

 

 

 

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JohnBeatle
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Re: Latency issues with live online Jamming session!

ECS route, typically 15 ping to server & overall 30 - 40 ms delay. Band practice with band mates is possible but there will be a slight audio delay noticeable in the audio return mix. Band mates report similar stats when connected also. Running the server on your own pc connected to VM network, ping reported by band mates in region of 60ms overall delay 100ms. So not suitable for jamulus. 

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