Latency / Jitter spikes, causing issues on teams, VPN, Google Home

[bdavbdavbdav]

Had VM installed within the last month, having come from a Zen 70/20 line which pinged Google / 1.1.1.1 at about 4-6ms, and had practically no jitter.

VM line gone in, the line is technically fine, CS have done tests etc and claim all is OK, however pings are all over the place, and jitter is *huge* by comparison. This is really noticeable on zoom / teams, online games, and even on google home device requests failing a lot more regularly. 

CS said the ping hadn't gone above 40ms and so the line was in spec. Is this really the threshold for a decent line? I'd gladly take half the speed for the same latency as the VDSL line.

Is this just normal and to be expected? If I had known this was going to be such an issue I'd have cancelled within the 14 days. 

[bdavbdavbdav]

Have spoken to CS again, and been told the line is in "acceptable limits" for ping etc. I'm not sure I'd class the amount of ping and jitter as acceptable given the impact it has on VC and games.

For reference, BQM for the VM line , BQM for the ZEN Openreach line 

CS report that theres nothing wrong with the line - I read that this is just down to how DOCSIS works combined with contention in the cabinet. If this is the case, I'd really appreciate it if someone in CS could talk me through cancelling the contract without penalty, as the performance of the connection isn't acceptablel.

[risc19]

VM has THE WORST latency you can in the uk get due to two reasons...

1. Old school docsis tech.

2. Very poorly managed network. 

3. They are greedy (oversubscribed segments).

You BQM looks very normal for a virgin connection, not the best but not the worst by a long shot.

You have two options...

1. Cancel contract if within cooling off period.

2. Get used to it as it can get much worse.

[jbrennand]

EDIT - risc 19 is quick out of the blocks this evening 😎

The BQM's you show are typical of the difference between the 2 technologies. And the VM one actually  looks fine (better than mine) apart from one disconnect (did you restart, or did it update?)

What practical issues are you experiencing - is it an issue whilst gaming?

To cancel without penalties you had to do it in the 14-day cooling off period - it could be difficult to prove unless the connection is continually outside the guaranteed parameters. Someone else will comment as to what they are on the VM contract

[bdavbdavbdav]

Unfortunately I missed the boat on the 14 days - we were moving house over a fair period of time and didn't really get a chance to use it in earnest for work / play etc for a while!

Issues I'm seeing (which aren't there on Zen)

• Laggy page loads - everything seems "springy" - does nothing for a while then loads, even with non-VM DNS. Random non page loads.
• Teams / Zoom calls are a lot more drop-out-y on audio, noticable lag / jerkiness from time to time
• Rubber-banding in games
• Really odd google home dropout issues (Couldn't complete request, audio dropping) which wasn't there before. This appears not to be a wireless issue.

This is both with the SH4 acting as a router, and with it behind the UniFi setup (USG, Multiple UAP-AC-PROs about the place), and the main PCs are wired. Managed my own rented racks in DCs and have done large scale UniFi deployments, so am confident in the gear & setup internally. 

I'm a bit frustrated that I didn't read into the nuances of DOCSIS more beforehand - I would have quite happily stuck with VDSL again (which I don't fully utilize anyway!) had I known the VM was so much more unpredictable. I'm considering going down the ofcom complaint / small claims route if it doesn't prove fruitful - Selling "blazing fast" connections is all well and good, but it seems to me that the bulk of the population would probably much prefer a rock-solid 70meg line for voip / VC than a 500meg line for the odd occasion they have to pull something big. 

For comparison, this is what I've come from: BQM Live Graph - Zen Openreach Line 

[risc19]

Are your hubs levels within spec?

If you post them here we could have a quick look.

[jbrennand]

Post them as per this...
_____________________

In your browser’s URL box type in http://192.168.0.1 (or http://192.168.100.1 - if in modem mode) (DONT click these links) - and hit return. On the first page up dont login (unless you have the Hub4/5 - when you do login) just click on the “router status” icon/text at bottom-middle (Hub3/4) or top/right (SH’s) of the Login page and then Navigate to these “pages” and just copy/paste the normal “Formatted Text” (not images) 3 FULL sets of data onto here – 2 tables from the Downstream, 2 from the Upstream, & the Network Logs page. Don't worry too much about the formatting it can be easily read & DON’T include personal data or MAC addresses - blank them out - if you copy/paste the data, the board software will do this for you (you may need to click the "submit" button again. If character limits are “exceeded” - just do two posts

[bdavbdavbdav]

Thanks - Line stats enclosed!

3.0 Downstream channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID

1	138750000	5.400002	40.366287	QAM256	1
2	146750000	5.099998	40.366287	QAM256	2
3	154750000	5.300003	40.946209	QAM256	3
4	162750000	5.199997	40.366287	QAM256	4
5	170750000	5.099998	40.366287	QAM256	5
6	178750000	5.099998	40.366287	QAM256	6
7	186750000	5.199997	40.366287	QAM256	7
8	194750000	5.400002	40.366287	QAM256	8
9	202750000	5.500000	40.366287	QAM256	9
10	210750000	5.699997	40.366287	QAM256	10
11	218750000	5.699997	40.946209	QAM256	11
12	226750000	5.699997	40.946209	QAM256	12
13	234750000	5.599998	40.946209	QAM256	13
14	242750000	5.500000	40.366287	QAM256	14
15	250750000	5.500000	40.366287	QAM256	15
16	258750000	6.000000	40.366287	QAM256	16
17	266750000	6.099998	40.946209	QAM256	17
18	274750000	6.199997	40.366287	QAM256	18
19	282750000	6.000000	40.366287	QAM256	19
20	290750000	6.099998	40.366287	QAM256	20
21	298750000	6.300003	40.366287	QAM256	21
22	306750000	6.300003	40.366287	QAM256	22
23	314750000	6.099998	40.366287	QAM256	23
24	322750000	5.800003	40.366287	QAM256	24
25	330750000	5.400002	40.366287	QAM256	25
26	338750000	5.400002	40.366287	QAM256	26
27	346750000	5.500000	40.946209	QAM256	27
28	354750000	5.400002	40.366287	QAM256	28
29	362750000	5.599998	40.946209	QAM256	29
30	370750000	5.699997	40.946209	QAM256	30
31	378750000	5.800003	40.366287	QAM256	31

3.0 Downstream channels

Channel Lock Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors

1	Locked	40.366287	0	0
2	Locked	40.366287	0	0
3	Locked	40.946209	0	0
4	Locked	40.366287	0	0
5	Locked	40.366287	0	0
6	Locked	40.366287	0	0
7	Locked	40.366287	0	0
8	Locked	40.366287	0	0
9	Locked	40.366287	0	0
10	Locked	40.366287	0	0
11	Locked	40.946209	0	0
12	Locked	40.946209	0	0
13	Locked	40.946209	0	0
14	Locked	40.366287	0	0
15	Locked	40.366287	0	0
16	Locked	40.366287	0	0
17	Locked	40.946209	0	0
18	Locked	40.366287	0	0
19	Locked	40.366287	0	0
20	Locked	40.366287	0	0
21	Locked	40.366287	0	0
22	Locked	40.366287	0	0
23	Locked	40.366287	0	0
24	Locked	40.366287	0	0
25	Locked	40.366287	0	0
26	Locked	40.366287	0	0
27	Locked	40.946209	0	0
28	Locked	40.366287	0	0
29	Locked	40.946209	0	0
30	Locked	40.946209	0	0
31	Locked	40.366287	0	0

3.1 Downstream channels

Channel Channel Width (MHz) FFT Type Number of Active Subcarriers Modulation (Active Profile) First Active Subcarrier (Hz)

33

94

4K

1800

QAM4096

424

3.1 Downstream channels

Channel ID Lock Status RxMER Data (dB) PLC Power (dBmV) Correcteds (Active Profile) Uncorrectables (Active Profile)

33

Locked

43

6.9

540810997

1

[bdavbdavbdav]

Upstream

3.0 Upstream channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID

1	46200000	48.8	5120 KSym/sec	QAM64	1
2	39400000	48.5	5120 KSym/sec	QAM64	2
3	25800000	48.5	5120 KSym/sec	QAM64	4
4	32600000	48.5	5120 KSym/sec	QAM64	3

3.0 Upstream channels

Channel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts

1	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
2	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
3	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
4	ATDMA	0	0	0	0

[bdavbdavbdav]

Logs

Network Log

Time Priority Description

Mon 25/07/2022 16:48:37	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 01/01/1970 00:01:22	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun 24/07/2022 18:02:15	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 21/07/2022 13:49:52	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 01/01/1970 00:01:21	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Wed 20/07/2022 22:14:47	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue 19/07/2022 18:12:23	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun 17/07/2022 10:14:47	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 14/07/2022 03:26:28	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Wed 13/07/2022 22:14:47	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue 12/07/2022 11:03:07	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon 11/07/2022 10:19:15	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon 11/07/2022 02:37:06	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun 10/07/2022 10:58:58	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sun 10/07/2022 09:22:58	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 5; Chan ID: 3; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat 09/07/2022 08:03:54	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Fri 08/07/2022 09:43:29	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Fri 08/07/2022 08:06:46	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 5; Chan ID: 1; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Fri 08/07/2022 08:06:33	3	SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 07/07/2022 21:42:35	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 5; Chan ID: 1; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 07/07/2022 21:42:20	3	SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 07/07/2022 19:42:03	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 5; Chan ID: 1; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 07/07/2022 19:41:35	3	SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Wed 06/07/2022 21:39:34	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue 05/07/2022 21:10:28	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue 05/07/2022 16:43:54	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Tue 28/06/2022 23:06:13	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon 27/06/2022 03:55:07	5	MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 01/01/1970 00:01:25	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon 27/06/2022 03:52:22	6	SW download Successful - Via NMS
Mon 27/06/2022 03:51:38	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 24; Chan ID: 33; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: 1.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon 27/06/2022 03:50:34	6	SW Download INIT - Via NMS
Mon 27/06/2022 03:34:25	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 24; Chan ID: 33; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: 1.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon 27/06/2022 03:32:21	4	SW upgrade Failed before download - TFTP Max Retry Exceeded
Mon 27/06/2022 03:32:21	4	SW Upgrade Failed Before Download - Server not Present
Mon 27/06/2022 03:31:01	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 24; Chan ID: 33; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: 1.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon 27/06/2022 03:30:13	6	SW Download INIT - Via NMS
Mon 27/06/2022 03:27:03	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 24; Chan ID: 33; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: 1.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Mon 27/06/2022 00:14:47	4	SW upgrade Failed before download - TFTP Max Retry Exceeded
Mon 27/06/2022 00:14:47	4	SW Upgrade Failed Before Download - Server not Present
Mon 27/06/2022 00:12:39	6	SW Download INIT - Via NMS
Sun 26/06/2022 23:28:58	4	SW upgrade Failed before download - TFTP Max Retry Exceeded
Sun 26/06/2022 23:28:58	4	SW Upgrade Failed Before Download - Server not Present
Sun 26/06/2022 23:26:51	6	SW Download INIT - Via NMS
Sun 26/06/2022 05:53:40	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat 25/06/2022 08:59:30	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 24; Chan ID: 33; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: 1.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Sat 25/06/2022 06:14:45	4	DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Fri 24/06/2022 09:36:10	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 24; Chan ID: 33; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: 1.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 23/06/2022 11:06:05	3	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
Thu 23/06/2022 11:02:32	6	CM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 5; Chan ID: 24; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;