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FantasticMrFox
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Hub 4 blocking Tado bridge connection

Hi,

 

This is going to be a very technical post question, and tbh I won't be surprised or offended if no one can answer apart from VM. But if anyone can that would be fantastic.

I have a tado bridge to control my heating that connects all the thermostats to the internet. my old hub 3 was setup with the wifi turned off and put into modem mode and then hard connected via a single link to a velop wifi system. This was run in router mode with other hardwired connections downstream of it as well including the Tado bridge.

I changed to the hub 4 and decided to get the most of the system I would try to flatten it rather than have it cascaded from the velop. So the connections that were hard wired from the velop were connected to the hub 4 and the velop plugged into he hub 4. the hub 4 itself was set up as a router, and the velop put into bridge mode so all DHCP requests were sent to the hub 4.

First of all the hub 4 would not assign an address to the tado bridge so it was given a reservation in the DHCP table. That solved that. However it still could not connect to the internet through the hub 4. I then reconfigured the network back to the way it was passing everything through the velop and it worked again.

So any clues as to why this is, and how I fix it? there's no logging in the router of any error messages and it still fails when the firewall is turned off.

Thanks!

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Tudor
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Message 2 of 9
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Re: Hub 4 blocking Tado bridge connection

I know, I have one, that the Tado bridge only works in 10M mode, not 100M or 1G mode. It’s possible that the Hub4 does not support 10M connections only 100M or 1G. I see no reason why the Tado bridge is restricted to 10M it’s a very old outdated speed, maybe they just got some cheap chipsets!


Tudor
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FantasticMrFox
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Re: Hub 4 blocking Tado bridge connection

Thanks, that’s an interesting reply. I do appreciate that answer!

I hadn’t mentioned another feature of the network as it makes the original post even longer...

The Tado bridge sits on the end of the same power line adapter in either configuration so that it is in the best place in the house to get a signal to all the thermostats. As it doesn't change the speed of the power line it is connected to in either configuration I don't think it is that.

Our network is pretty busy with around 30 devices connected - wired and wireless and some on a power line network!

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jem101
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Re: Hub 4 blocking Tado bridge connection

The obvious answer based on what you have said is that the Hub 4's ethernet ports don't like talking to whatever Powerline adapters you are using, if it's the case that none of your PL connected devices would work properly - if it's just the Tado bridge that doesn't then it all gets a bit more difficult.

If it is just the Tado having trouble then we first need to connect it to the Hub 4 just via direct ethernet and if that means moving the Tado or getting a very long cable then so be it. If that works then the next step is to get a managed switch, put a port into what's called 'promiscuous mode' connect the Hub and the Tado to it (via the Powerline connection), connect a PC and run Wireshark to capture the communications between the Hub and Tado and see where it's falling over.

Personally if it were me, I absolutely wouldn't bother!

The Velop is certainly a better wifi solution than the Hub can manage so you'll want to keep that, and it's probably a better router as well. Putting the Hub into router mode, really isn't flattening the setup or simplifying it at all - quite the reverse, you're making it more complicated!

The Hub 4 is relatively new but if you browse some of the other posts here, you'll find quite a few comments regarding it's stability (or lack thereof), I can't comment on how widespread or bad these issues are because I don't have one. It certainly doesn't appear to be much of an improvement over the Hub 3 other than the cable modem part of it, the routing and wifi performance seems to be the same at best. The perceived wisdom with the Hub 3 was that if you wanted better performance, especially with wifi, then use your own equipment and I would strongly suggest that the same is true for the 4.

Of course you might be unlucky and have a Hub 4 with particularly flaky and picky ethernet ports and a replacement would fix it - but I really wouldn't bet much money on it.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: Hub 4 blocking Tado bridge connection

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I had thought of that too.

The powerline adapters worked fine directly plugged into the hub with other devices working correctly. I also directly wired the tado into the hub and that failed too.

I was after flattening the network as the velop does have some speed issues reported when using gigabit ethernet pass through. I am using the ac versions and not the new ax, and apparently the faster processor does a better job on hardwired pass through than the old one. When I spoke to linksys support they did recommend going to the new ax version. But then it is £360!!!

My network to the tado has quite a few hops and I was looking at decreasing those. It goes hub -> velop -> ethernet switch -> powerline -> tado (and other powerline adapters) and in one instance -> switch -> other devices. then at least the other devices would have full speed to the hub.

So the idea was to put the powerline on one hub 4 port, switch on another, velop on another....

And yes hub 4 stability... I just wish it would leave me logged in rather than presenting  blank page and you having to start again. Or is that just me?

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Roger_Gooner
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Message 6 of 9
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Re: Hub 4 blocking Tado bridge connection

I'm inclined to think that it was a mistake to put the hub back into router mode as mesh systems typically only work best when being a DHCP server rather than being in bridge mode. Another thing to consider is that having the hub in router mode is asking for trouble in that the next upgrade, usally done without warning, could wipe out your configuration.

I also think that for reliability you should use powerlines as little as possible, so can you have a bigger network switch plugged into the Velop and connect as much as you can to this switch. It's absolutely fine to connect another switch to this large switch. You might have to drill a few holes in walls or a ceiling for Ethernet cabling but it would be worth it.

--
Hub 3.0, TP-Link Archer C8, TP-Link TL-SG1008D 8-port gigabit switch, V6
My Broadband Ping - Roger's VM Broadband Connection
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Tudor
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Message 7 of 9
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Re: Hub 4 blocking Tado bridge connection

I’ve never been a believer in power line adapters, they are just another way of slowing down your network. When I had some questions about the Tado hub some years ago I contacted their technical department(!) and they told me it must always be connected directly into your router. After trying to explain to them I only have a router (look up its definition in a dictionary) and not a retail router that also contained a network switch, they were totally lost.

My setup:

VM hub ——-> Unifi Security Gateway 4P ———-> 16 Port Switch ———-> Tado bridge

                                                                                                           ———-> Upstairs Access Point

                                                                                                          ======> Loft 8 Port Switch

                                                                                                          ======> Downstairs 8 Port Switch  ————-> Downstairs Access Point

Currently running over 60 devices.


Tudor
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FantasticMrFox
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Message 8 of 9
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Re: Hub 4 blocking Tado bridge connection

Hi,

Thanks for all the comments.

Yes, I know Powerline isn’t great but I don’t rely on it and the traffic is limited.

The point is that either directly connected into the hub, or any other route, Powerline or not, the Tado bridge won’t connect to the Tado website. Velop has to act as the bridge for the entire network and it slows it down.

Incidentally the wired solutions people are suggesting would need to be run tens of metres over 3 floors. So that is not happening either.
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Tudor
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Alessandro Volta
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Re: Hub 4 blocking Tado bridge connection

Ethernet cable is exceedingly cheap and relatively easy to run between floors. All my network switches use 2 Ethernet cables between them in a LAG, diversely routed,  to give a theoretical speed of 2G and redundancy. Running Ethernet cable externally I have found it is easy to hide behind downpipes.


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