Virgin Media Community

[farrellsarah6]

Hello

I rang Virgin to ask about compensation due to a delayed install. The original date was 25th November and we didn’t get Virgin installed until 17th January. The call handler “calculated” that this was “two weeks, so that’s £20.” I said this was not right. She went away again then came back with £35. Again, I said this was not right having seen Virgin’s policy for compensation (£5.25 a day). She then said we weren’t liable for anything because the external work was what delayed the overall install. I said that I wanted to complain further because it was Virgin who kept telling me the external work was being done and I lost three days’ earnings due to booking time off for no install to take place.

She passed me onto her manager who said I’m only liable to a month’s bill (£26). Again I said this wasn’t good enough and where were all of the previous call handler’s “calculations” from. He said he didn’t know. 

I said that I would be leaving my query for now but he pushed for me to settle the dispute now and take the £35. I felt this was because he knew I knew something wasn’t right.

Please can someone advise me further?

Thanks

Sarah

[goslow · Accepted solution]

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@farrellsarah6 wrote:

Hello

I rang Virgin to ask about compensation due to a delayed install. The original date was 25th November and we didn’t get Virgin installed until 17th January. The call handler “calculated” that this was “two weeks, so that’s £20.” I said this was not right. She went away again then came back with £35. Again, I said this was not right having seen Virgin’s policy for compensation (£5.25 a day). She then said we weren’t liable for anything because the external work was what delayed the overall install. I said that I wanted to complain further because it was Virgin who kept telling me the external work was being done and I lost three days’ earnings due to booking time off for no install to take place.

She passed me onto her manager who said I’m only liable to a month’s bill (£26). Again I said this wasn’t good enough and where were all of the previous call handler’s “calculations” from. He said he didn’t know. 

I said that I would be leaving my query for now but he pushed for me to settle the dispute now and take the £35. I felt this was because he knew I knew something wasn’t right.

Please can someone advise me further?

Thanks

Sarah

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Compensation minimum requirements here from OFCOM

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0026/216962/Industry-Code-of-Practice-for-Automatic-...

and updated rates here

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/costs-and-billing/automat...

VM have their own scheme based on the above.

The main date of interest in regard to compensation is in para 9 above which is the date initially confirmed in writing to activate your services. In VM's order management processes it will mention a technician coming to install equipment and activate services.

VM has a long track record on here of misinforming customers about their compensation rights under the above scheme and trying to pay off the customer with a lesser amount based on monthly package costs.

They also seek to minimise pay-outs by trying to claim dates first given were 'provisional' or by claiming delays were due to waiting for council permits or wayleave agreements (and so compensation will be reduced).

Have a read through the above document and map out your own timeline of events and do a rough calculation of your own on what you think you are due. You would be compensated for delays as per rates/terms under the scheme but not for any lost earnings. Post back on here with any further queries.

[farrellsarah6]

Thanks very much for your extremely helpful response. I’ll get to it.

[Carley_S]

Hi @farrellsarah6

Welcome to the community forums. 

Sorry to hear that your install was delayed and of your complaint regarding compensation for this. 

Automatic compensation is only applied for installation delays when the Virgin Media is at fault. Unfortunately delays caused by 3rd party, such as wayleave and construction works are not eligible for this compensation. This information can be found on our terms and conditions here  under - Credits for delay in activation of a fixed line or broadband service

'At the point of ordering the applicable service, where possible, Virgin Media will provide a date upon which the chosen services will be connected to the premises and the appropriate equipment put in place in order for those services to be accessible by the customer (‘activation’). If at the point of placing this order Virgin Media has reason to believe that additional engineering work may be required in order to provide the service, for example construction to connect the customer’s premises to the network that may require permissions or permits outside of Virgin Media’s control, then a provisional activation date will be provided. Only after the necessary investigation has been undertaken will Virgin Media be able to provide a confirmed date for activation. Credits will not be payable if a provisional appointment date is changed to a different, confirmed date.'

If this is the case, then we can look at compensation for any customer dissatisfaction or inconvenience caused  but this would be manually offered and would not be calculated in the same manner and rules as the automatic compensation scheme, which sounds like what has taken place and been offered when you have called to discuss. 

Please let us know if you have heard back from the manager you spoke with to settle your complaint as this complaint seems to have been escalated already.

[jpeg1]

But in the case of delay due to waiting for Council permission to dig the pavement, the compensation period must only be reduced by the Council's delay.

In other words, if Virginmedia waits a month before asking Council permission, and the Council replies after three days, the compensation must be from the beginning of the delay, less three days.  It must not start only after the Council permission is received. 

[goslow]

@farrellsarah6

Key words highlighted from the quoted text at #4 for clarity, to see how they match with your circumstances.

"At the point of ordering ..." is the time when VM must declare if the date is 'provisional' and inform the customer.

From the OFCOM document at para 9 "the date initially confirmed in writing "

VM retrospectively trying to re-engineer the original confirmed installation date as a 'provisional' one (further into the attempted installation) was found to be a non-starter in the adjudication linked below from CISAS where the customer was awarded £398.98 for VM's errors and incorrect calculation of automatic compensation (based on the incorrect representation that the customer's installation date was a 'provisional' installation date).

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/QuickStart-set-up-and/Compensation-awarded-by-CISAS-after-faile...

The information at #4 about delays due to construction works not being covered is not clear enough. Refer to para 40 of the OFCOM doc for the limited circumstances when VM can reduce any payments due. If the construction delays are due to VM's sub-contractors, VM is still responsible.

If a delay is due to a third party (such as landlord delaying a wayleave agreement being processed or a council processing a permit to work in the street) then payment may be reduced by an amount relating only to the delay caused by the third party.

You will find past topics on here where the blanket 'waiting for council permits' excuse has been put forward by VM, only for the customer to make their own enquires with the council and find that no permits have been applied for. That has happened several times recently. Here is an example

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/QuickStart-set-up-and/Installation-delays-because-of-fake-permi...

Only you will know the exact circumstances and details of your VM installation. The exact details are important in processing any claim under the automatic compensation scheme. Once you have gone through the compensation scheme in detail yourself, and worked out what you think you are due in relation to your own specific situation, use that as the basis for processing any complaint to VM (and beyond if necessary).

[Andrew-G]

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@Carley_S wrote:

Hi @farrellsarah6

Welcome to the community forums. 

Sorry to hear that your install was delayed and of your complaint regarding compensation for this. 

Automatic compensation is only applied for installation delays when the Virgin Media is at fault. Unfortunately delays caused by 3rd party, such as wayleave and construction works are not eligible for this compensation. This information can be found on our terms and conditions here  under -

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That's only partly correct.  The minimum scheme VM have to implement under Ofcom's Industry Code of Practice for Automatic Compensation is that VM are liable for all delays unless to obviate those delays would cause a breach of the law (ie permits or wayleaves), or where the customer themselves has caused or contributed to delays.  That's a simplified summary of section 40 and 41 of the Code of Practice, look them up.  

In context, what this means is that regardless of the cause of delays, VM are liable for delays before seeking a permit, and delays after a permit has been issued.  If, for example, VM's civils sub-contractor can't do the job in a timely fashion, they couldn't hire necessary equipment, or their dog at the worksheet, that's tough luck, VM should have planned better and are therefore still on the hook, and that is specifically what section 41 covers.  

[jem101]

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@Andrew-G wrote:

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@Carley_S wrote:

Hi @farrellsarah6

Welcome to the community forums. 

Sorry to hear that your install was delayed and of your complaint regarding compensation for this. 

Automatic compensation is only applied for installation delays when the Virgin Media is at fault. Unfortunately delays caused by 3rd party, such as wayleave and construction works are not eligible for this compensation. This information can be found on our terms and conditions here  under -

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That's only partly correct.  The minimum scheme VM have to implement under Ofcom's Industry Code of Practice for Automatic Compensation is that VM are liable for all delays unless to obviate those delays would cause a breach of the law (ie permits or wayleaves), or where the customer themselves has caused or contributed to delays.  That's a simplified summary of section 40 and 41 of the Code of Practice, look them up.  

In context, what this means is that regardless of the cause of delays, VM are liable for delays before seeking a permit, and delays after a permit has been issued.  If, for example, VM's civils sub-contractor can't do the job in a timely fashion, they couldn't hire necessary equipment, or their dog at the worksheet, that's tough luck, VM should have planned better and are therefore still on the hook, and that is specifically what section 41 covers.  

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Partially correct? I think that's being generous of you Andrew, it's hardly true at all. In fact the statement could be construed as an attempt by VM, via an official agent of theirs, to deliberately mislead a customer as to their rights, in an attempt to avoid paying the owed compensation.

Won't count in the company's favour if and when this ends up at the industry regulator!

Of course a company can include whatever they want in the Terms and Conditions, and they can be quoted as much as you like, don't make them legally enforceable though!

John

[Andrew-G]

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@jem101 wrote:

Partially correct? I think that's being generous of you Andrew, it's hardly true at all.

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My initial draft was considerably stronger terms, but I thought it better to reign things in, since the forum staff are only allowed to say certain things, and also probably haven't been given appropriate training.  The T&Cs don't actually say that VM are off the hook for anything that's not their fault, but there's a few instances where "breach of applicable laws" involves non-permit, and non-wayleave matters, such as access to controlled areas/parking, or vehicles blocking access since VM can't forcible move them.  Having said that, breaking and entering, or TWOCing a car are not the only or even the first means for achieving access, and it's an entirely reasonable argument they should have arranged access in the first case, and in the second case should use cones, signs or door knocking to ensure that they do have access when needed.  Other than in a real emergency, other utilities don't have any more powers than VM (ie next to none) but still manage to keep their infrastructure repaired and maintained.

And I suppose that's what annoys me in these cases.  The odd delay of a few days is entirely understandable (even though VM typically give themselves two weeks from the date of order anyway), no what annoys me is the shabby meanness of VM's corporate persona.  The repeated instances of trying to blame the council for delays that are entirely VM's fault, for fraudulent attempts to evade regulatory compensation requirements, the useless complaints handling and persistent mis-information to customers; and in particular the fact that the broken installs/repull process has now been like this for years, demonstrating that VM's management are entirely happy with this state of affairs.

This lack of improvement is visible in so many aspects of the things Virgin Media do, and I think it a fair observation that Virgin Media is where customer service came to die.  Lutz Schüler may not have realised but he is now The Undertaker of Customer Service, and in view of that I think he should get a more respectful haircut.  I wouldn't be impressed at a funeral organised badly by an undertaker who looks like a middle aged ex-boy band member trying desperately to cling on to the currency of youth......