24-05-2021 15:31 - edited 24-05-2021 15:56
Do any Super Hubs (maybe the newest SH4?) support the newest WP3 security protocol and/or Wifi 6?
I've literally searched everywhere, but couldn't locate the full specifications for the latest SH4 (or others), where it should give this info – other bits of SH4 specs I found but not these two pieces of information.
TIA.
PS. This is not related to the iOS 14 security message issue, but just a general question.
Answered! Go to Answer
on 24-05-2021 18:57
@jpeg1 wrote:I don't see any incentive for VM to spend money on more expensive Hubs to allow faster LAN connections than their Internet service can provide.
But surely they'll see pressure to at least move to the newer more secure WPA3 protocol, which AFAIU is part of the Wifi 6 spec, so you'd get both anyway?
on 24-05-2021 19:07
Only if their potential customers demand it. I doubt if many would know the difference.
on 24-05-2021 19:17
@jpeg1 wrote:Only if their potential customers demand it. I doubt if many would know the difference.
Sure, but there are other external forces at play here. For example, large tech companies currently strongly recommending customers use WPA3, with devices on anything lower than WPA3 potentially moving to show on devices as "Low security connection", as they do now with WPA or WPA/WPA2 mixed modes.
One example, is Apple's support document on this that states only use WPA2 if cannot get WPA3. With the next step sooner or later likely of WPA2 being depreciated, and WPA3 being required. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202068
There are others who have the same recommendation.
on 24-05-2021 22:47
People need to understand networking. A so call ‘home router’ is not a router, it’s a router, network switch and Wireless Access Point combined. When using a local device to local device data does NOT go through the router function of this type of box. The data could just go through a WAP, a WAP and network switch or just a network switch.
24-05-2021 22:53 - edited 24-05-2021 22:59
@Tudor wrote:People need to understand networking. A so call ‘home router’ is not a router, it’s a router, network switch and Wireless Access Point combined. When using a local device to local device data does NOT go through the router function of this type of box. The data could just go through a WAP, a WAP and network switch or just a network switch.
Yeah we're not talking about that, re. WPA3. We're obviously talking about when connecting to the internet as that's when WPA (and other protocols) are used. Hence the support documents Apple and others have released I've mentioned – see "Router settings" here: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202068
The Wifi 6 issue for moving files on the local area network is separate.
on 24-05-2021 23:29
There does seem to be a bit of confusion here, wifi 6 or 802.11ax refers to the way that the radio frequencies are allocated and the number of channels used - in actual fact for a single device, at best wifi 6 is less than 40% faster than an equivalent wifi 5 (802.11ac) system. Where it is much better is allowing many more devices to connect simultaneously (better use of the available bandwidth) and improved power efficiency. The extension to wifi 6 is referred to as wifi 6e and can use frequencies over 7 GHz which will give much higher speeds but will be far worse at penetrating obstacles like walls for example. So I suppose if you really want to be on the cutting edge then wifi 6 is already obsolete and you should be looking at 6e, although I believe currently there are only a handful of routers which support it and and don't think there are any devices (phones etc) which do.
WPA (1, 2 or 3) are encryption protocols to secure the data passing over a wifi connection - it has nothing to do with internet connectivity at all. The original WPA (1) is now regarded as completely insecure, WPA2 comes in two types TKIP and AES, the former version is to ensure compatibility with WPA(1) systems which only uses TKIP and this is now regarded as not being secure - hence the advisory from Apple to not use WPA/WPA2 because that will default to TKIP, if you use WPA2 (AES) or WPA3 (which only uses AES), then you should be OK.
To be certified as a WiFi 6 device, it has to also support WPA3 but it's not mandatory to use it.
on 24-05-2021 23:42
25-05-2021 00:04 - edited 25-05-2021 00:09
@jem101 wrote:There does seem to be a bit of confusion here, wifi 6 or 802.11ax refers to the way that the radio frequencies are allocated and the number of channels used - in actual fact for a single device, at best wifi 6 is less than 40% faster than an equivalent wifi 5 (802.11ac) system. Where it is much better is allowing many more devices to connect simultaneously (better use of the available bandwidth) and improved power efficiency. The extension to wifi 6 is referred to as wifi 6e and can use frequencies over 7 GHz which will give much higher speeds but will be far worse at penetrating obstacles like walls for example. So I suppose if you really want to be on the cutting edge then wifi 6 is already obsolete and you should be looking at 6e, although I believe currently there are only a handful of routers which support it and and don't think there are any devices (phones etc) which do.
WPA (1, 2 or 3) are encryption protocols to secure the data passing over a wifi connection - it has nothing to do with internet connectivity at all. The original WPA (1) is now regarded as completely insecure, WPA2 comes in two types TKIP and AES, the former version is to ensure compatibility with WPA(1) systems which only uses TKIP and this is now regarded as not being secure - hence the advisory from Apple to not use WPA/WPA2 because that will default to TKIP, if you use WPA2 (AES) or WPA3 (which only uses AES), then you should be OK.
To be certified as a WiFi 6 device, it has to also support WPA3 but it's not mandatory to use it.
Thanks for the info, but there really isn't any mass confusion here. I don't think I said the two were specifically connected in any way technically – apart from saying that Wifi 6 routers are mandated to also have the latest WPA3 secure wireless encryption protocol available for use (obviously you can use WPA2 or WPA2/WPA3 mixed mode, if wanted, as you said).
Maybe I wasn't clear. My point is, that given users often have vast numbers (and growing) of devices (inc. IOT) in even the average non-techie user's home, the use of Wifi 6 would be beneficial to improve contention ratios within the home, thus maintaining more wireless stability which would have the side effect of increasing speeds (less drop-outs, etc.). Yes, VM supply external internet connection as their core business, but obviously they know that most customers rely on their single all-in-one SuperHubs to deal with all their in-home networking needs too.
Wifi 6e was going to be for 'sighted' connections (eg. across a room) due to its technical limitations, and no doubt that may be a 'bonus' feature we'll see on routers in a few years from now. But vanilla Wifi 6 is here today, is available on lots of recent devices (especially if you use a lot of Apple gear!), hence outside of the VM business issues (i.e. it looks like VM have already signed agreements with their supplier for these SH4 boxes, that unfortunately *do not* have Wifi 6), surely they'd have the foresight to have it their next SH5 box – hopefully to be released soon, as more & more users take the Gig1 plan.
If they did a SH5 with Wifi 6, it would automatically offer WPA3 (with WPA2/WP3 mixed mode) being as it's included in the spec – a bonus of increasing the wireless security encryption at the same time.
on 25-05-2021 07:12
@jimthing wrote:...Anyhoo, still debating whether to invest in one, as good routers tend to be expensive, ...
For Stability's sake I would get one!! - The Hubs are decent enough modems.... but routers? Nah! Adequate is being kind!
on 26-05-2021 13:13
The Specs for the Hub 4 Router can be found at the bottom of this page
Virgin Media launches fastest wireless hub in the UK - Network - Press Release - HEXUS.net