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MDD message timeout

jackc1998
Tuning in

For more than a month the broadband in our household goes down for a couple minutes more than 5 times a day. I have checked the network log and every time there is an MDD message timeout is when the broadband disconnects from the internet. Here are some figures from the hub settings:

Network Log

Time Priority Description

20-12-2022 14:12:07noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 14:10:33noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 14:10:29warningMDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 14:03:23noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 14:01:35noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 14:01:23warningMDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 11:54:42noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 11:53:03noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 11:52:43warningMDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 02:28:22noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 02:26:51noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 02:26:48warningMDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 00:25:27noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 00:24:03noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
20-12-2022 00:23:44warningMDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 23:06:32noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 23:05:00noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 23:04:56warningMDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 20:44:00noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 20:42:57noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 20:42:31warningMDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 19:30:35noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 19:28:55noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 19:28:39warningMDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 18:02:56noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 17:56:35noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 17:56:27warningMDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 14:52:14noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 14:50:31noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 14:50:22warningMDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 13:41:52noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 4; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
19-12-2022 13:40:40noticeCM-STATUS message sent. Event Type Code: 1; Chan ID: 159; DSID: N/A; MAC Addr: N/A; OFDM/OFDMA Profile ID: N/A.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;

 

Downstream

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID
1355000000442QAM 25628
22110000004.942QAM 25610
3219000000542QAM 25611
4227000000542QAM 25612
5235000000542QAM 25613
62430000004.942QAM 25614
72510000004.842QAM 25615
82590000004.642QAM 25616
92670000004.942QAM 25617
102750000004.942QAM 25618
11283000000542QAM 25619
122910000005.143QAM 25620
132990000004.843QAM 25621
143070000004.943QAM 25622
153150000004.843QAM 25623
163230000004.843QAM 25624
173310000004.442QAM 25625
183390000004.442QAM 25626
19347000000442QAM 25627
203630000003.842QAM 25629
213710000004.242QAM 25630
223790000004.142QAM 25631
233870000003.942QAM 25632
243950000004.142QAM 25633
254030000004.143QAM 25634
264110000004.243QAM 25635
274190000004.143QAM 25636
284270000004.143QAM 25637
294350000004.143QAM 25638
304430000003.942QAM 25639
314510000004.343QAM 25640

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
1Locked42450
2Locked4250
3Locked42110
4Locked42170
5Locked42100
6Locked4250
7Locked4270
8Locked4290
9Locked42100
10Locked42120
11Locked4260
12Locked4320
13Locked4330
14Locked4380
15Locked43190
16Locked4380
17Locked42200
18Locked42270
19Locked42450
20Locked42490
21Locked42510
22Locked42600
23Locked42720
24Locked42660
25Locked43810
26Locked43810
27Locked43910
28Locked43800
29Locked43820
30Locked42990
31Locked43880
 
Upstream

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID
04960000043.55120QAM 641
143100000435120QAM 642
236600000435120QAM 643
33010000042.35120QAM 644
42360000042.55120QAM 645

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts
0ATDMA0000
1ATDMA0000
2ATDMA0000
3ATDMA0000
4ATDMA0000
37 REPLIES 37

Roger_Gooner
Alessandro Volta

Your stats are good but your log confirms the problem you are having. Power off your hub, check that all the connections are tight between the hub and wall socket and that the cable is not damaged or kinked, and power on the hub again. Come back here if the problem persists.

--
Hub 5, TP-Link TL-SG108S 8-port gigabit switch, 360
My Broadband Ping - Roger's VM hub 5 broadband connection

Hi Roger,

We have tried this a few times and have had engineers out twice and both have said the cables in the household are fine and not damaged. 

I had this issue, and unfortunately, no one could clearly explain what leads to the MDD message time but it's certainly something within the VM infrastructure.

Not sure if relevant (probably not), but I started having these issues with the Hub 5 > https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Networking-and-WiFi/Frequent-disconnects-since-upgrading-to-the...

I had a couple of engineer visits, replacing and installing various things, but they could not fix the issue. I wish you better success! 

MDD stands for Mac Domain Descriptor, which is a technical term for basically describing to the hub how the equipment at the far end of the cable is setup, what it should be listening out for etc. The underlaying technology is referred to as DOCSIS and it is designed to be highly dynamic, it works on the basis that overlaying digital data onto what was designed originally as a means of transmitting analogue cable TV to subscribers using cables that could be 20-30 years old, is somewhat problematic! Now don’t get me wrong, the mathematics and the infrastructure to implement it, is really quite elegant and remarkable, and as such it is designed to be really quite robust and cope with rapidly changing situations.

Your hub, on startup, listens for specific signals and messages on the cable, when it receives them, they tell the hub which frequencies it should be listening on, how many specific channels it should expect to receive and ignore all others, the hub currently will lock onto either 24 or 32 downstream channels and on one of these the MDD is transmitted, the sort of ‘primary channel’, as long as the hub periodically receives these MDD messages it’s happy and knows exactly how to ‘talk’ to the kit at the other end.

But, as I said DOCSIS is dynamic, so what happens if the channel that the MDD is currently on become impaired, a bit noisy maybe? The CMTS, basically the big modem on the other end of the cable, knows this and switches the MDD notifications to another channel, your hub, though doesn’t know this and suddenly finds that it is no longer receiving the MDD messages where it was expecting to find them, it has basically timed out! So what the hub does is to start looking on the other channels to see if the messages are there and eventually finds them and all is well - it does though log a scary looking message but notice that the priority of this is ‘warning’. In DOCSIS modem parlance a ‘warning’ message just means that something has happened, but no worries, I know how to work around it and it won’t cause any problems. In contrast a Sync Timing message will be ‘critical’ which translates as ‘something really bad has happened which I can’t compensate for and your connection really is going to be impacted’.

So don’t loose sleep about the MDD timeout messages, well except if there are a lot of them in close succession, then that is an indication that something is a bit ‘off’ with the underlaying connectivity.

Bottom line the MDD timeout messages are not in themselves anything to worry about, too many of them (and no, there isn’t a hard and fast rule of how many is too many), then that is a symptom that something else isn’t quite right.

And yes, I do know that most of the above is a massive over simplification of the actual way this stuff all works, I’m just trying to get the salient points across. There are some really good Wikipedia articles on how it functions for those who are interested. Be warned, though, the underlaying mathematics does go off into the weeds really quickly.😉

John

Hi John,

Thanks for the explanations. What concerns me is that this has been happening daily for over a month and it never done this before then. The connection had been solid for years (except for the odd occasion when the broadband would be down due to local issues but this was fine as it rarely ever happened).

jackc1998
Tuning in

To add some more info, I used a BQM to track packet loss and the spikes in packet loss happen when the MDD message timeouts appear on the network log. 

tempsnip.png

Yep, this is exactly what was happening with my issue. 

I'm not sure I buy into this:

So don’t loose sleep about the MDD timeout messages, well except if there are a lot of them in close succession, then that is an indication that something is a bit ‘off’ with the underlaying connectivity.

I think it is something to lose sleep about, it does seem the MDD message timeout causes a loss of connectivity for 1-2 minutes whilst it's trying to fix itself, which is not ideal when on a Zoom call with execs. If this is expected behaviour, I would jump ship to another ISP!

This is the exact situation that is happening daily, calls with work are being dropped for 2 minutes. Unfortunately there are a few of us in this household and we need super fast speeds and Virgin are the only ones in our area who offer fast enough speeds 😞

Frustrating isn't it! 

The amount of times I had to check I was still audible... a tip to know when its dropped, open up a command prompt and run a continuous ping to 8.8.8.8 (ping 8.8.8.8 -t) - when it times out after a few attempts, you know the connection has dropped. I was running this side by side on my meetings - at least it lets you know when to stop talking! 😄

You can then validate the ping timeouts against the BQM graphs and Hub logs.