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golec83
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Hub 3.0 and Killer WiFi issues

Hi,

I've received a new Dell XPS laptop with an Intel Killer WiFi module (AX1650).

It seems that the virgin hub 3.0 is incompatible with some of the newer features on the wifi module and quite often when I power on the laptop or wake it from sleep, the router seems to be rebooting.

I have an Eero router and Hub 3.0 is in Modem mode.

Eero Router stays up throughout every reboot 10 times out of 10.

Attaching a video link to show precisely what is happening. 3 pings, one to Eero router (192.168.1.1), one to hub (192.168.100.1) and one to internet (8.8.8.8).

router reboot 

From what I understand this issue has been present for quite a while in the virgin hub (on my former laptop I have replaced the wifi module to work around it, this time, the module is bolted onto the board). Is there a permanent fix in firmware in any hub that virgin is offering or any possible solution to the reboots?

Thank you,

Chris

 

 

gary_dexter
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Re: Hub 3.0 and Killer WiFi issues

You need to disable the aptly named “killer” part of the Wifi.

It is known to “kill” a lot of routers 


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mjpartyboy
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Re: Hub 3.0 and Killer WiFi issues

Might be worth researching the Intel wireless adapter's advanced settings and disable as much as you don't need.

We've got a solid home network via an ASUS AC86U (Super Hub 2 in modem mode), but the first AX laptop that joined had no end of connection issues on both the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz band, until I disabled lots of its wireless adapter's advanced settings. Been solid on the 5 ever since.

SH2 modem mode | AC86U router | AC68U node
golec83
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Re: Hub 3.0 and Killer WiFi issues

Hi gary_dexter,

I'm not using the killer application package at all. Can you be a bit more specific please?

Chris

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golec83
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Re: Hub 3.0 and Killer WiFi issues

mjpartyboy,

I've set the MIMO Power Save mode to 'No SMPS' in advanced settings of the Network Adapter for the AX1650s few weeks ago and I think it has made some difference (less reboots) but it's still not 100%. Do you know if any other specific setting needs to be changed?

@VirginMedia - Killer has always been stating that their features are ok, and some older devices not supporting them correctly are at fault. I'm obviously on latest firmware, drivers etc.
I do know this issue with router rebooting has been happening for at least two years now.

Is there any plans for Virgin Media to review this specific compatibility issue in the future? Surely I'm not an isolated case..

Chris

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Tudor
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Re: Hub 3.0 and Killer WiFi issues

If the Hub3 is properly in modem mode it’s not doing any router functions at all, so it’s unlikely to be causing the problem.


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golec83
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Re: Hub 3.0 and Killer WiFi issues

Hi Tudor,

I would assume this also but the video I uploaded and my experience shows it differently. I had an Archer router before, now an Eero and in both cases it’s the hub that’s rebooting. My initial suspicion is that the AX sends some sort of a packet onto the local lan which is causing the router to reboot. It’s not doing any router functions but it clearly gets affected.. I’ll check cabling for anything out of ordinary tomorrow just to clarify with some sort of a map. I am yet to run wireshark while testing the laptop boot, I’ve been hoping for someone to say - hey, disable this and that advanced setting and you’re golden! 😉

Anyone willing to do a bit of a deeper investigation?

Chris

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sophist
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Re: Hub 3.0 and Killer WiFi issues


@golec83 wrote:

Hi Tudor,

I would assume this also but the video I uploaded and my experience shows it differently. I had an Archer router before, now an Eero and in both cases it’s the hub that’s rebooting. My initial suspicion is that the AX sends some sort of a packet onto the local lan which is causing the router to reboot. It’s not doing any router functions but it clearly gets affected.. I’ll check cabling for anything out of ordinary tomorrow just to clarify with some sort of a map. I am yet to run wireshark while testing the laptop boot, I’ve been hoping for someone to say - hey, disable this and that advanced setting and you’re golden! 😉

Anyone willing to do a bit of a deeper investigation?

Chris


I don’t buy it. The hub doesn’t know whether clients are connected by AX, AC or b/g/n. It’s just processing tcp/udp packets and they are the same whether they’re sourced on a wifi6 client or otherwise.

not disputing your symptoms, just that I don’t see how it can technically have anything to do with the fact that you’re running an ax router…

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golec83
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Re: Hub 3.0 and Killer WiFi issues

Hi sophist,

Yes, it should not matter but it does.. Again, I'm suspecting that some packet sourced from the wifi card gets as far as the router physical interface and causes it to reboot.

I have checked cabling, Hub goes to an Eero port and another port on Eero goes to a small switch. That's it.

There is no vlans so technically a packet from the laptop can hit the router still (again, assuming the two ports on eero work like a switch).

I'm thinking I'll maybe vlan off the links from eero and hub on two switch ports instead and test it again. My switch is a very simple one but I think it does suspect some basic vlan functionality.

The reason I think it's to do with Killer WiFi chips specifically is:
I had it with my previous laptop, which was using a previous version of Killer WiFi module (1435 i think). All problems have gone away the moment I replaced the m.2 card with a 20 quid Intel module. Virgin Hub was rock solid for months since. Recently I have got a newer laptop with a newer Killer (Now Intel Killer) card and the same issue started happening.

Thanks,

Chris

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sophist
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Re: Hub 3.0 and Killer WiFi issues

But the eero is processing all of hte packets on the LAN side and then natting it through to the modem.. 

you need to do a packet trace on both the LAN side and the WAN side of the eero and see what’s being generated.. by hte time the packet has been processed/sanitised and sent onto the hub, all the hub it seeing is a tcp stream (or a bunch of udp packets) it’s not seeing any wireless frames or anything like that - it’s all standard stuff and the source shouldn’t be relevant.

an interesting problem for sure, but without some more data on what packet(s) are causing the hub to fail we’re gonna be none-the-wiser..


@golec83 wrote:

There is no vlans so technically a packet from the laptop can hit the router still (again, assuming the two ports on eero work like a switch).


I don’t know anything about eero’s, but in theory(in my simple brain anyways) the eero should have a WAN and LAN interface (might not matter which you use, but it should designate one for each network) so any packets hitting the LAN interface with a destination outside of your network should be sent off to the processor that handles NAT/routing and then back down to the WAN port.. it shouldn’t be possible for a LAN packet to hit the eero’s WAN interface without first being processed (i.e. NAT’d) 

Edit: are you able to disable the AX radio in the eero? So that clients can only connect via the older standards?