Virgin’s lack of customer loyalty

[Suzanne123]

My contract is due for renewal next month and I don’t understand why Virgin rewards new customers with a reduced priced contract and penalises their existing loyal customers. I have been offered a new 18 month contract that will cost £13 more a month than I am currently paying and I will be losing my unlimited SIM card - so more money and less benefits! Surely this can’t be correct? Signing up a new customer must create a lot more work for Virgin than renewing an existing loyal customer so why don’t Virgin want to keep their existing customers?

[Suzanne123]

My contract is due for renewal next month and I don’t understand why Virgin rewards new customers with a reduced priced contract and penalises their existing loyal customers. I have been offered a new 18 month contract that will cost £13 more a month than I am currently paying and I will be losing my unlimited SIM card - so more money and less benefits! Surely this can’t be correct? Signing up a new customer must create a lot more work for Virgin than renewing an existing loyal customer so why don’t Virgin want to keep their existing customers?

[goslow]

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@Suzanne123 wrote:

My contract is due for renewal next month and I don’t understand why Virgin rewards new customers with a reduced priced contract and penalises their existing loyal customers. I have been offered a new 18 month contract that will cost £13 more a month than I am currently paying and I will be losing my unlimited SIM card - so more money and less benefits! Surely this can’t be correct? Signing up a new customer must create a lot more work for Virgin than renewing an existing loyal customer so why don’t Virgin want to keep their existing customers?

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Not too much point in comparing against new customer pricing as those prices are for ... new customers. This is how VM has chosen to operate so customers need to operate in a similar way.

Whatever offer(s) VM makes to you will be based on how likely VM thinks you are to leave.

You need to be pricing up your alternatives to VM to get an idea of costs elsewhere with another provider. Then go back to VM to get their best and final offer. If it doesn't match up against your alternative options, put in your cancellation.

Some have reported on here that, once they have actually cancelled, they get a call back from VM retentions with a better offer (but this is not guaranteed and it is advised to have marketing options turned on in MVM to allow such a call to take place).

[goslow]

Duplicate post is being answered in 'Account Management - Cable'

[japitts]

Virgin's business model is not unique in the world of telecoms, neither is "new customer" discounts.

Everyone was a new customer once, and rather than get upset with it - the more constructive tactic is to play the system for your own good. Do some research into alternative providers for your choice of services, and get some facts & figures. Then compare those facts & figures with what VM's prices are - you now know your options. Decide whether you're willing to potentially cancel VM and take your business elsewhere - and now call VM retentions with all this in your head.

Discuss with the agent, what they're willing to offer you to re-contract as an existing customer and be prepared to say "yes" or "cancel please" on that call. Don't go down the "I'm not sure" or "check with my partner" line, any offer you're given is valid only for the duration of that call and also suggests you're not sure - use the 14day cooling off period as your insurance.

You're likely to get the best results this way.

Edit: Duplicate post merged into the same thread.

[Suzanne123]

Thank you - how sad that they don’t have any loyalty to their customers. I will shop around as suggested.

[japitts]

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@Suzanne123 wrote:

Thank you - how sad that they don’t have any loyalty to their customers. I will shop around as suggested.

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Shop around and you'll find the vast majority (if not all) telecoms providers operate in a very similar way.

If you're taking a hard commercial line, "loyalty" could also read as "I stick around no matter what" - what do you think retentions agents must think when they see a customer who isn't really likely to look elsewhere?

If nothing else, and you don't really want the hassle of cancelling, then being informed as to what offers are available elsewhere, does put you in a better position. It certainly can't hurt.

[Andrew-G]

Agreeing with japitts here, I'd suggest you make sure you learn your part for the retentions pantomime:

(1) Only try and negotiate after the fixed term has ended, or during the last 30 days before that.  Trying to cut a deal before that rarely get a decent deal.

(2) Know what the alternative offers for other ISPs are and have them in front of you when calling, and remember that any price difference per month is multiplied by the 18 months of the contract.  This is potentially a £700-1,200 contract you're negotiating, treat it with the same energy and attention that you would for any other purchase of a grand.

(3) Regardless of what the agent might say, any offer completely lapses if you end the call "to think about it".  Know what a good price is before having the conversation, and if you're offered a great deal, then accept it immediately, equally don't feel pressured to accept a poor deal compared to other ISP offers.

(4) The way the retention agents work, you'll get different offers on different days from the same agent, and different offers on the same day from different agents.  If you don't feel you're getting very far, end the call and try again another day - although the next agent will know you're a repeat caller, and will have to be pushed a bit harder as they'll assume you're more inclined to stay than leave. 

(5) Learn the craft of "retentions discussions as a customer".  In all of this, your leverage comes only from the extent to which the retention agent believes that you are genuinely prepared to leave, but can be retained for a discount.  These agents do this day in, day out, they're trained, they're usually experienced, they're paid on results, and it's pretty common to up the pressure on them by having league tables up in the office that show all agents' performance.  Every caller says they want a discount or they'll leave, many customers aren't prepared to cancel, and the agents are good at sniffing out those who show any of the signs of not really intending to leave.  Some customers can be distracted by an add-on offer that wasn't something the customer requested, but seems like a good deal, or by some sales patois about the Connect app, public hotspots, "best ever wifi" and the rest.  Focus on what you want, what you can get elsewhere, and have in your mind what is required to convince you to stay with VM - maybe write these down.  If this is about price, avoid starting any prattle about loyalty or fairness as that language instantly tells the agent you're likely to stay.  Be wary of retention hooks like bundled sims or TV packages they start offering unless you really get some value from those.  Many people get distracted by the offer a free wifi pod and a Volt bundle that they wouldn't otherwise have chosen, and because they think they're getting something great, end up paying £7-20 a month more, which adds up to quite a tidy sum over 18 months.  If that's actually what you want then by all means go for it, but always have in mind what you want from the call. 

(6) Keep it brisk, polite and chirpy - these guys and girls are doing the job they're paid to do, getting a mutually agreeable outcome quickly and with a friendly discussion is ideal for them, ideal for you.  Time is money to these people, so start off the call by giving the agent a good idea of where you want to end up - if you've caught their name when answering the phone, make it personable, eg "Hi Dave, I'm hoping you can help me as I'm at the end of my fixed term contract, and I think I'm going to have to cancel as the new contract price is so far different from the deals I can get from (eg) Plusnet/Sky, for £xx a month.  Can you match those prices for me?".  They'll usually try and offer something above those other company offers, if so come back along the lines "Thanks Dave that's in the right direction, but it's still well above what I'd pay elsewhere, and that £x a month difference is going to be £xxx over an 18 month contract - is there any more leeway to match the deals easily available?  I can commit now if you can match that price?"   If trying to deal with any offshore agents, then your experience is likely to be materially worse than the UK based retentions agents, although regardless of UK or offshore they're all outsourced staff who actually work for companies other than VM.

(7) If you really don't want to bother with the retentions pantomime, and just issue notice to cancel, then there's a good chance that you'll get one or several "outbound retentions" or win-back calls during the notice period.  These callers have access to the best pricing and are more likely to offer you something around new customer pricing than an inbound call you make to the retentions team.  Obviously there's no guarantee that these calls will be made, or that you'll be available to take them, so they can be part of your renewal strategy, but usually in conjunction with placing an order for a different ISP.  If the VM call comes and you agree terms, you cancel the different ISP under cooling off rights, and pay nothing.  If the VM outbound call doesn't come, or the terms remain unacceptable, then you allow the cancellation to run its course and use the new ISP connection.

(8) And a final observation.  Loyalty is a myth.  I've been a VM customer for 25+ years.  But that's not loyalty, its a hard nosed reflection that at each renewal point, I've looked to see what the alternative was, and VM was at that time my best option.  That won't be the case soon as they're laying Openreach FTTP in the area, and my point is that you and I have chosen to stick with VM because it suited us, and for no other reason.  We don't stay with VM for their customer service, we don't stay with VM because we love their brand, we don't stay with them because we feel sorry for Branson, and want to help him re-stock his Caribbean tax-dodgers wine cellar (although Branson has no operational involvement, his people simply licence the Virgin brand to a US company that operate the UK cable network).  If VM could make more money by ending your or my contract, they'd do it.  If we could get a genuinely better deal we'd take it and cancel VM.  So keep in mind that you are the customer, and the power sits with you, but only through a willingness to take your business elsewhere, not because they owe you anything, or because you owe them anything. 

[Swf]

It's sad mine was offered 26 more per month.  I handed in 30 day notice. 3 days later I got a call and offered the same price.  I have the guys number I'd you want it.    Worth a try. 

[Suzanne123]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I rang back to give 30 days notice intending to go back to plusnet and was then offered a new contract at the same price as I had previously with half the speed and no SIM card. 
I agreed and was told that the new contract would start on 24 November but then to my horror I was sent an email informing me that my direct debit in November would be double. I rang to query this however the agent kept telling me that my discount had ended which was not true as my contract doesn’t end until 16 November and in the end I said I would send a letter of complaint. I am a pensioner living on my state pension and if Virgin take double in November I would not have enough money to buy food. I sent the complaint and received a response stating that Virgin will respond within 28 days however this might be too late for the direct debit so I will now have to call them again to cancel.