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Epic 3 HOUR AND 3 PHONE CALL SAGA - SAVED ME £600 P.A.

Pete_Notts
Up to speed

Hi All

As per my thread title. Best to just leap in and explain.

I have been with VM since the days they just started as ntlworld. Never missed a payment, and same as with all bills I am due.

I know I had always with savings been on a pretty reasonable deal..ie presently £82.00 a month for :

Maxit TV, Sky Cinema, Sports (inc the available 4k uhd where available for films, like last night where I watched 'Batman Begins' in UHD - along with TV shows..(say the 'The Rookie' for example),

SH3 with 600 connection and landline with 7 days a week free local/national calls, with the 1 hour hang up/callback standard caveat.

I have always signed up for 18 month contracts.

So £82.00 was a fair price for all this I thought.

Anyways. This morning, I phoned up and asked to be put through to Retentions, which I duly was, and spoke to Michael.

I wanted exactly the same package as I have now. I appreciate soaring prices, but despite a long call, he was adamant that the best price available, was £117.00.

That was what..maths is not my forte - but in excess of a 25% hike, which I finally after much questioning agreed to..though unhappy at the amount extra.

It was ALMOST the end of the story, and that is what my next 18 months fee would have been - an extra £35 a month for the same services.

Anyways. It was a sidestep reason that I called a second time, less than half an hour later. In that initial call, he mentioned that Netflix was included - which I already have a seperate subscription for - including my beloved 4k content.

As I investigated the contract mail sent to me, I saw - that had I clicked and agreed on the Netflix link - they would have paid Netflix on my behalf, and I no longer automatically would be billed by Netflix.

Sounds convenient. EXCEPT. I noticed, that had I done so..it would be for the basic plan..ie just 2 devices, and NO 4k...but with an option to pay yet an extra premium for this facility, bumping my bill to over £125 a month

Suddenly this price hike was starting to be outside my comfort zone - and given the charge for Netflix was supposedly no different, than the full access I enjoy by paying Netflix directly..well..decided to call back, less than half an hour later.

This second call was unusual, in that I immediately went through to the UK, where I spoke to Claire. It was only at the end of the call, that I asked if she was from 'Retentions..?' She told me "NO" and that she was from Customer Care.

Utterly stunning young lady..!! I did not hound her, in fact she seemed determined to look at my quote. After an age of truely hard work - she came back to me..bear in mind I was NOT phoning back to fight the initial quote I had agreed to - just for Netflix charging clarification - she came back with her own quote for me..of £78.00 a month..virtually £40 a month cheaper than Retentions had offered.

And she processed it there on the phone..*AND* upgraded my package from the SH 3 600, to posting out a SH 5 1Gig..!!!

So everything I have already, plus a SH/speed upgrade for close to £500 a year cheaper..!!

I was so grateful to her..BUT..I was also truely annoyed, that Michael from 'Retentions' had not been able to even closely match her offer..and I wanted a reason. £500 a year - twice my annual car insurance was what I was about to pay for the same services..exactly the same.

Now I was £500 pa better off,AND with an upgrade from SH 3 to SH 5 from 600 to 1 gig. I had not even known of this hub, much less asked for a change/upgrade. This was courtesy of Claire in Customer Care, who was utterly bit between the teeth determined to help me get a better deal, despite me starting to flag a bit lol !!

So..

Where I was annoyed so much at Michael from Retentions, having all but sold me the precise same thing, for that inflated price..I came alive again, and decided to call Retentions back, and ask for an explanation as to why there was such a gigantic inconsistency.

This time..last call..I spoke with a lady cut from the same cloth as Claire. This ladies name was Holly - also a bloodhound for the customer FIRST and FOREMOST.

I told her I was not looking to make a formal complaint, but relayed the aforementioned facts. She gave me the option to complain online formally, BUT again in a congenial chat, I told her that was not the reason for my call - just to try and know why it is, that someone from Retentions had not had access to the best offer, rather than the 2 hours (at that point) it had taken to inadvertently save me a lot of money.

There were several 'supervisor' pauses attributed to 'just have to check'...and then she came back, totally apologetic as we both joked about talking out loud when sidetracked or doing other things.

Holly went again through my quote..and deducted an extra £10 a month off of it..with the new SH 5 arriving tomorrow..!!

So all my existing services PLUS that upgrade, and no other fees for..

£68 a month as opposed to £117 a month..including that free delivery upgrade SH5 and 1 gig service.

In truth 1 gig is beyond my needs..BUT it was free, and a lovely gesture.

Close to £600 pa LESS than what I *almost* settled on - were it not for one simple inocuous callback querying their Netflix Billing Policy..!!

Upshot for me..? Retentions were once the 'safe place' to go for the best deal when renewal rolls around. That has definitely for me been thrown into doubt in terms of automatically assuming it to be the case.

It's alarming that such a HUGE disparity can exist, when in truth as a valued customer, you expect every advisor to genuinely have access to the cheapest deals, and instilling faith by offering it.

Double check your renewal quotes is my takeaway. Call again if unhappy..seems Customer Care can unseat Retentions where circumstances are available to do so..and you fall lucky speaking to the *RIGHT* person !!

This was just this morning. I consent to Admin checking my account/phone calls today, for any Doubting Thomas - if allowed to do so - as talking nonsense serves no purpose to anyone.

Pete

 

5 REPLIES 5

DarrenjuggIns
Dialled in

Well done Pete,

A similar experience, although it seems sometimes it’s better to upgrade to far more for far less.

moved from 350mb, Mix TV, Telephone. £62 a month.

 

to 600mb, maxit TV, Netflix, Sports, Cinema, extra 360 Box, Telephone anytime, Unlimited 02 Sim (Volt Maxit or something it’s called)

Virgin element £48 O2 Element £25 TOTAL £72…

 

as my original deal was jumping to £85 anyway, I was pretty happy to secure the new deal for 18 months…

Strange but hey, I’m happy….

#namaste 

 

Thanks Darren

This uprading for more, and 'pay less' scheme exists for a reason I suspect.

Once you acclimatise to something better than you had before..it is very hard for us mere mortals to want to, or be prepared..to step down/away from.. once the next bank busting fee is presented upon renewal.

I suppose it's the same with all businesses though..they never truely offer something for nothing in the long run.

Pete

The reason you get different offers from different agents (and potentially different offers on different days from the same agent) is simply down to how the retentions agents are managed and incentivised.  Any guff about being "customer care not retentions" is indeed just guff.  A retentions agent usually gets at least 25 % of the total pay from achieving targets.  There's a target number of customers to "retain" in a given sales period of say a month or a quarter, that number can vary by agent and experience.  Each agent then has a fixed budget to work within - if you like, think of it as the total amount of discount they can have for the sales period.

So for each call, the agent has to judge how likely you are to stay, how much they want to give away, and how fast they're getting through their pot of discount. Only if they hit targets do they get paid their bonus.  Give their discount pot away too fast too early, and they may start to run out of discount and as a result miss out on their target because there's not much to offer customers in the last few days of the sales period.  Be too stingy early on, and they may lose more customers, and then have to offer giveaways later in the sales period in a desperate hope of catching up on the target.  Key to this is judging whether a customer will stay or not - the ones most likely to stay the agent should not be making overly generous offers to (from their and the company's viewpoint).  All the agents you spoke to were looking to maximise their bonus - they weren't customer champions, they weren't miserly, it's just maths.

It's good you got a great deal, but my perception is you seem pretty keen to stay with VM, Michael judged that well early on, and but for the hiccup over Netflix would probably have kept you at a profitable price.  Claire on the other hand perhaps needed to make up her numbers, or has more of her discount pot left, and went for it big time - we have to assume logical for her, but for the company a very poor outcome (I have no sympathy for the company, they choose to put customers through the retentions pantomime!).  If you'd initially been willing but very reluctant to take a £117 offer, then (as you wouldn't have know somebody might do you a £78 deal) simply dropping that to £90 would have probably delighted you?  Maybe a free Hub 5 and 1 Gbps would have swayed you to pay £117?  And now you know what's feasible, next time round you'll not easily settle for the sort of price VM would like!

All academic now, but a really interesting lesson for other customers as to what's possible.

Hi Andrew

Thank you so much for your reply. To say it was detailed, and explained so much of how this can - does - work, would be an understatement.

I have no personal background, or former family who worked in sales. So  I was a bit astounded to read the reality and scope at play here.

Obviously yes I understood the basics of commission..just had no idea how wildly different it could be - including the parameters/likelihood of remaining as a customer, determining the strategy employed.

I guess like most people, my mind defaulted to more 'even ' (?)  formats.

What I mean is things like say car insurance, home insurance..and such like. Where you get comparable quotes, some a degree higher than others..and try to work out which is the best option for you based on precisely what is offered.

What you outline, sounds virtually cut-throat - not an insult to sales staff - but rather in approach to customers by a system designed in this very fashion.

Whilst at the same time from this experience, highlighting the need as a customer to have an equal mindset, and fight back just as hard in order to secure the best deal. I thought I understood the rudimentaries of over-pricing, like back when I used to buy medium priced second hand cars..and be annoyed with a few grand difference on say a 20k motor, for no obvious reason.

What you describe, and correlating to this morning, whereby you could end up with any quote/deal from someone who you trust as a professional, and people generally assume will try - yes to upsell a degree - but ultimately to gauge customers, whereby they quote double the price available..and still making a profit at the cheapest purchase you can secure..is..unsettling

The degree of difference though, is in my opinion too extreme, and in need of tighter boundaries. For the first advisor to ultimately have been charging not far from double the amount that eventually I secured as a deal..? That is too extreme..given it's from the SAME company. Obviously a huge case to be made for stricter guidelines and honesty - but equally for a fairer and more measured applied margin.

Maybe I'm wrong when I say the following - but in years/decades past it was never so extreme as this with major suppliers for key services, and given the fact that that everyone truely has less disposable income than I can recall at whatever their earnings..it is something which really does need to be more stringently regulated, particularly when we are not talking about 'Arfur Daley' and a dodgy motor down the car lot - but instead one of the UK's TOP utility providers of services for internet, TV and phone services.

As a customer..it was NOT nice to battle through the best deal available to this crazy/fortuitous extent to get the deal I did..nor do I feel unsympathetic to the needs and pressure that sales staff seemingly work through in order to earn a living.

There should be some form of regulation regarding pricing, whereby customers with the same company, will not ultimately pay twice the price as the next customer for exactly the same products and service

Pete

 

"particularly when we are not talking about 'Arfur Daley' and a dodgy motor down the car lot - but instead one of the UK's TOP utility providers of services for internet, TV and phone services."

I'd suggest we are talking about the Arfur Daley of ISPs.  There's no correlation between a company's size and its behaviours and VM's consistently leave a lot to be desired. 

Once upon a time AOL was the world biggest ISP, they too treated customers like dirt, with offshoring customer service, making it difficult to leave, etc etc and as a result of that (and executive piffling around at M&A as a preferable hobby to running a decent business) AOL has all but vanished from the face of the earth.  That's a lesson VM should heed, but hasn't so far and I'd suggest won't. 

Absent a deep pocketed and rather foolish buyer, VM will eventually run out of road because of how they treat their customers - they don't cover the cost of capital used by the business, they made losses for many years, and now the broadband business is being subbed by the O2 operation that does make money.  That buys a bit of time, but doesn't solve the problem that the VM broadband business is not genuinely profitable.