Auto Compensation Amount Incorrect

[wolfmaskman]

I'm a new customer of Virgin Media and honestly i wish i had never joined

9 days into my contract i experienced a 7 day outage caused by what i was told to be "cabling issue in my estate"

I've worked in telemcomms for years and know that Ofcom Regulations stipulate that the provider has two day grace period to fix any issue after it being reported then i receive £8.40 per day so 7 days minus the 2 day grace would be £42.00. Earliest someone could come out was 6 days after i told them. Engineer came out and couldnt do anything as it was an estate issue and contractors needed to come from a different part of the country to fix it. I was assured it would be fixed that day, that then turned into being fixed the next afternoon.

My first call about this i asked for a complaint to be opened which wasn't.

Second call i got a complaint reference number and complaint was closed.

I'm now just over a month into my contract and have had a stable connection for a few weeks and when i go to check my bill i see that VM has applied 1 day/£8.40 auto compensation to my account. This is completely unacceptable given the rules imposed by Ofcom and VM has signed up to about what can be compensated for

The people on the phones don't know what that they're talking about so i've given up calling and trying to use whatsapp means waiting at least a few hours for a response and in some cases overnight before someone looks at it

I'm now on my third complaint with VM in 4 or 5 weeks. At this point i want what i'm owed otherwise VM can issue me with my deadlock letter, which when i last checked VM will be fined approx £300.00 for that happening, and we can go to the Ombudsman

[jem101]

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@wolfmaskman wrote:

I'm a new customer of Virgin Media and honestly i wish i had never joined

9 days into my contract i experienced a 7 day outage caused by what i was told to be "cabling issue in my estate"

I've worked in telemcomms for years and know that Ofcom Regulations stipulate that the provider has two day grace period to fix any issue after it being reported then i receive £8.40 per day so 7 days minus the 2 day grace would be £42.00. Earliest someone could come out was 6 days after i told them. Engineer came out and couldnt do anything as it was an estate issue and contractors needed to come from a different part of the country to fix it. I was assured it would be fixed that day, that then turned into being fixed the next afternoon.

My first call about this i asked for a complaint to be opened which wasn't.

Second call i got a complaint reference number and complaint was closed.

I'm now just over a month into my contract and have had a stable connection for a few weeks and when i go to check my bill i see that VM has applied 1 day/£8.40 auto compensation to my account. This is completely unacceptable given the rules imposed by Ofcom and VM has signed up to about what can be compensated for

The people on the phones don't know what that they're talking about so i've given up calling and trying to use whatsapp means waiting at least a few hours for a response and in some cases overnight before someone looks at it

I'm now on my third complaint with VM in 4 or 5 weeks. At this point i want what i'm owed otherwise VM can issue me with my deadlock letter, which when i last checked VM will be fined approx £300.00 for that happening, and we can go to the Ombudsman

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Yep, well you do seem to be fairly clued up regarding the procedure, one thing though, it's two FULL days, so, hypothetically, you call at on Friday 1st of the month at 00:01 and register a failure, Friday doesn't count as it's not been a full day (albeit short by one minute, but still), Saturday and Sunday don't count either (not 'working days'), Monday and Tuesday do count but VM fix it at 23:59 on the Wednesday (so that's not a full day either, again by one minute). So theoretically you have no connection for effectively six days and are entitled to no compensation at all!

So be careful about how many days compensation you think you are owed, the failure to properly handle a complaint, though, well that's different and is a mitigating factor in deciding compensation levels.'

And I'm sure you will know, but for the benefit of others, once eight weeks have past since your first complaint, then you can escalate it to CISAS without waiting for a deadlock letter.

Oh and lastly, your comment "The people on the phones don't know what that they're talking about", well yes that's a given, on the not-unreasonable grounds that they are call centre workers, completely untrained to the same high standard (some readers will get the reference😉), and anything which doesn't appear as a menu option on a script on their PCs is usually met with something being either completely made up, or occasionally, the phone simply being deliberately put down on you - not that the latter, of course, ever happens according to the forum staff here, it's just odd that so many posters report it; obviously they are all lying as surely the highly professional and well-trained call centre drones (or 'the team' as it is mandated to call them), wouldn't do such a thing!

Cynic? Me, absolutely not, how dare you......

[wolfmaskman]

Hi Jem

Thanks for the response.

Having worked both the technical and complaints sides of broadband for years i've seen both sides and why customers get frustrated.

To give you a timeline of events:

• Tuesday morning i go to work and internet is working
• Get a message saying it off that afternoon
• Get home and report it to VM and do their troubleshooting and am told repeatedly "We can see you router so we dont know why its not working" (later find out this is a lie)
• Get told it requires a home visit is required for the following Monday (6 days)
• I remind the person on the phone that i've been a customer at this point for 9 days and being expected to wait 6 days for a visit is not really that good
• Ask if i can raise a complaint about that and get told yes
• I sit on this for a few days and am not satisfied with what i was told so called again
• At this point im told again that the line seems fine and the home visit is still needed but a complaint hadnt been raised
• Get an actual complaint and remind the person on the phone that everyday its off i'm due compensation - agent agrees
• Monday rolls around and i see a VM van rock up and the engineer tells me that due to damage to the line at the very top of my estate 1200 M of cable from the cabinet to the exchange need replacing and requires a network team from a different part of the country (only an hour away) need to replace it and it'll be done this afternoon (monday)
• It gets to 7PM that night and still not internet so i call VM again to ask for an update
• This person says another home visit is needed and i explain to her 3 times that a home visit is pointless due to what the engineer advised me and it would be a waste of his time if the fault lays with the exchange>cabinet cable
• I'll also add that i had to explain exactly why the visit would be a waste of time because she couldnt grasp what needed to be replaced
• Tuesday morning internet comes back on and engineers calls me to confirm. Advises me that cable is repaired but still needs replacing but that'll be done during the night so minimal disruption will be seen

Now i totally understand working the 24H angle to duck out of compensating. I've seen that trick pulled several times. As of End of Play Wednesday that is day two to me. They had the rest of Tuesday (the day i reported it) and the entirety of Wednesday to attempt a fix or at least send someone of external inspections. If i called a bank, or really any other company and they said to me "we want something by two working days" and i deliver it on the morning after the second working day i would get penalised for that. 24Hs is not a working time. Its a calendar day.

That leaves Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday as 5 fulls days without service. It was fixed 7 days after being reported.

Having rechecked Ofcoms website about compensation the wording on their website is "£8.40 for each calendar day that the service is not repaired". A calendar a day includes the two weekend days. Working days if we keep in the spirit of what VM may try to bend is what i would consider up until 8pm on a weekday. So Tuesday at time of report (i would say around 5PM) till 8pm that night and Wednesday 8am - 8pm, would be my two working days as thats what time the points of contact (call centers, whatsapp etc) are available too and generally what time engineers work to.

I am very happy to talk to someone who will actually listen and know the rules and regulations VM has signed up to and just get what i am due. If not i am more than happy to request my deadlock letter and take this to the Ombudsman as that will cost VM more than just giving me the compensation i am asking.

[wolfmaskman]

Oh and i know all about the 8 weeks/56 days from the initial complaint. Thing with that is its "8 weeks or if the customer requests the deadlock" at point of requesting the deadlock VM would have to offer me a "final offer" and i would either need to accept or decline it. Refusal to give me it would be a gross breach of trust and be worse for VM in the long run

[jem101]

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@wolfmaskman wrote:
Oh and i know all about the 8 weeks/56 days from the initial complaint. Thing with that is its "8 weeks or if the customer requests the deadlock" at point of requesting the deadlock VM would have to offer me a "final offer" and i would either need to accept or decline it. Refusal to give me it would be a gross breach of trust and be worse for VM in the long run

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OK yes I get your point, but I don't think that is the right interpretation of the rules, it is eight weeks since the initial complaint or 'if the customer request a deadlock letter' (the word OR is legally important), then it can be expedited faster. The assumption being that the ISP will properly process and issue a deadlock letter, failure to do so in a timely manner is a mitigating factor when assessing compensation.

By your argument what if VM simply didn't make a final offer and leave you 'hanging in the breeze', so to speak, no final offer, nothing to accept or decline? So what, they simply do nothing and hence you can't escalate to CISAS. No that's not going to fly, is it?

[goslow]

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@wolfmaskman wrote:

Hi Jem

Thanks for the response.

Having worked both the technical and complaints sides of broadband for years i've seen both sides and why customers get frustrated.

<snip>

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Some clarification in the timings etc. below (rates in the doc are not up to date)

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0026/216962/Industry-Code-of-Practice-for-Automatic-...

paras 14 to 16

If I have understood your timeline correctly, by my calc's I agree with your £42 assessment at #1 but by this route

Reported Tuesday, VM has two full working days Wed and Thurs (conventional interpretation of working day applied Mon to Fri) to fix the fault and fail to do so by 23:59 on Thurs. That qualifies you for the payment trigger time of £8.40 for Tues, Wed, Thurs. You then get £8.40 for each full calendar day after that (Fri to Mon inclusive a further 4 days). Connection restored on Tuesday so no payment for Tuesday. Payment Trigger Time + 4 days = 5 x £8.40 = £42.

Also note para 40d from the link above which gets frequent mentions on here as a non-payment reason via the 'delays waiting for a council permit' excuse for work in the street (if it is likely VM will try to play that card).

You should probably try to find out how VM has come up with their 1 day/£8.40 figure in order to be able to counter claim against what they are offering.

[Kath_F]

Hi wolfmaskman, 

Thanks for your post and welcome to the forums. I's great having you on board with us in the Community. We're sorry to hear you've not received a credit you were expecting. 

We do have an automatic compensation scheme in place which was arranged by OFCOM. When there is a total loss of service for your broadband, the account is automatically assessed for compensation, once the fault is closed as resolved. If eligible, the credit is added and will show on the next bill due to be generated. 

If you've not received a credit then it would mean you haven't met the criteria. You can view more on the scheme, including eligibility here.

We do recognise that sometimes you would fall outside this scheme for things such as TV loss of service, a degraded service or if we've had to refer to contractors so we do look at these issues on a case by case basis and a goodwill credit can be added by our agents too.

We can certainly check the complaints side of things out for you as well as a manual review of the compensation but in order to do that I will need to confirm some information with you. 
I have sent you a private message regarding this. Just click on the little plum envelope at the top right-hand side of the page to access your inbox.
Thanks, 

[wolfmaskman]

Thank you for taking the time to look at this. I have responded to you and hopefully we can resolve this via DM

[wolfmaskman]

Small update for everyone

The guys on WhatsApp took one look at my issue and credited me £42 

So now I'm happy and will check again in a few days to see if that's reflected on my bill

[Kath_F]

Hi woldmaskman,

Thanks for coming back to me via private message to let me know the WhatsApp team have gotten this sorted for you now. 

Should you need help in future - you know where we are. 

Many thanks,