Phone switchover to 21CV

[endure]

I've just had an email (not had a letter) telling me my phone will be switched to 21CV at the end of March and I need a technician visit as I have an old (V2 I think) router,

1. Can someone arrange for a letter to be sent to me please?

2. I use the Virgin router simply as a modem and have my own router equipment. Will this still be possible with the new router that Virgin will be fitting?

[RPB]

Hey admins 🙂

Over the last 2 months I have spoken to Virgin about my change over and the 'dongle' I need for my router (v3). They are supposed to be sending me one out and have now said that 3 times. When will I get this magical illusive dongle? I don't want an engineer in my house so let's make that clear. Virgin said they'd send the dongle out and I am still waiting now. It's like weeks since my last call with them about this.

Pls can we chat via DM so I can get this sorted out? Thanks, regards, Richard.

[goslow]

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@stephenbrowning wrote:

Thanks to GoSlow and Ash.

So, Virgin have not only not provided comprehensive information to deal with existing wired internal installations it now seems they also cannot provide the current normal PSTN Ringer Equivalence Number (REN) capability of 4?     Anything else we need to know?

Steve

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I don't think there is an expectation that a majority of customers would need/want information on how to wire up extension sockets themselves.

VM will wire existing phone extension sockets to the VM hub as part of the switchover process, free of charge.

Refer here

https://www.virginmedia.com/help/landline/switchover

Do I need to book a technician visit?

You’ll need to book a free technician visit if...

• You rely on your landline for accessibility needs or don’t have a mobile to make an emergency call – we’ll provide you with an Emergency Back Up Line so you’re always able to call emergency services.
• You’ve got connected devices such as a burglar alarm linked to a control centre, use a telecare device, or have other phones connected to extension sockets. You’ll need to contact your provider and let them know about the switch if you have any of these to make sure they’re compatible with a fibre service.
• The Hub and your home phone can’t be placed near each other.

Other issues mentioned on here in the past have included that fax machines may not work over the 21CV line due to the way the audio signal is processed and, similarly, alarm systems which transmit data (for SMS notifications) may also not work reliably. Alarm voice diallers do not seem to have been mentioned as far as I can recall.

[stephenbrowning]

And could VM please confirm how they will meet the Obligations placed on them by OFGEM for Emergency Communications ability.

As detailed in sections 2.22 and 2.23 of this paper.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0032/137966/future-fixed-telephone-services.pdf

and here
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/123118/guidance-emergency-access-power-cut.pdf

Ash has mentioned the Battery facility but are there details and diagrams as to how that is configured please? 

Regards 

Steve 

[stephenbrowning]

And back to original point when are the Chat team going to be briefed properly to answer questions on these issues?

Also, I think you will find there are rather a lot of wired extension installations out there.

And where the Hub is nowhere near the existing Master Socket. 

Steve 

[goslow]

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@stephenbrowning wrote:

And could VM please confirm how they will meet the Obligations placed on them by OFGEM for Emergency Communications ability.

As detailed in sections 2.22 and 2.23 of this paper.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0032/137966/future-fixed-telephone-services.pdf

and here
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/123118/guidance-emergency-access-power-cut.pdf

Ash has mentioned the Battery facility but are there details and diagrams as to how that is configured please? 

Regards 

Steve 

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Refer to page 38 in the phone guide for the v3 emergency backup line currently deployed

https://store.virginmedia.com/content/dam/eSales/Downloads/Phone%20User%20Guide.pdf

AIUI, the current version is now being updated to allow calls to other numbers (beyond 999 only) if the main landline is down. Calls are charged as per the customer's landline package.

A VM tech installs and configures the equipment.

[stephenbrowning]

Thanks Hero, I'll look at that although I may not need the battery backup myself.  And I'm Ok understanding my installation but VM may find there is a lot of extension cabling to get done.  Noting that the simplistic PSTN to VoIP diagrams on OFGEMs advice PDF assume the Hub and existing Master Socket are colocated.       

Now, as regards the https://www.virginmedia.com/help/landline/switchover page

A little correction to the section  

What if I don’t have a free socket in my Hub?

with the useful diagram. 
The Ethernet connectors are of course RJ45 while the Phone connectors are RJ11

Steve

[stephenbrowning]

and I take it you meant Page 20 on the Phone User Guide

Where we see the V1 and V3 battery powered devices for making Emergency calls. 
The User just has to remember to make the special 07 number available to their important contacts.  And set up the V3 memory for same.
(I assume the Emergency Services will see the number using CLI line identifcation).

Quite a lot to get explained to the Users.  

Steve

[jem101]

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@goslow wrote:

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Snip..

AIUI, the current version is now being updated to allow calls to other numbers (beyond 999 only) if the main landline is down. Calls are charged as per the customer's landline package.

A VM tech installs and configures the equipment.

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Goslow, are we sure that this is correct? I know there have been a few claims on here about this and some saying that they have tried it by simulating an outage and the the phone was able to call a relatives mobile (not sure if they said the line actually connected if the mobile was answered though), but could it be that the SIM in the backup phone has a small amount of default 'credit' on it?

It just strikes me that having a system with a SIM in a phone which is somehow tied to the customers VM account and is able to charge the calls against their landline package, does seem unusually 'complex and competent' for VM to bother doing. Especially when the link you provided for the landline instruction booklet, on page 38 which describes the emergent backup service says;

"Calls made during a network outage or power cut will use a mobile number beginning 07 which is printed under the EBUL. During the network outage or power cut people will be able to call you back using that number. At other times they should call using your landline number."

My italics and bold; so others can call you - which makes sense on a 'mobile phone' with no credit, but no mention of you being able to call others - a mobile with no credit can still call 112 or 999, so it all sorts of makes sense.

There is a danger; based on one or two unverified claims, plus whatever made-up nonsense the offshore customer services staff may or may not have put out; that people start to assume this is indeed the case - which, of course it may well be - and pass on this 'fact' to others.

I think we really need a definitive statement from VM on exactly what the emergency backup line can or can't do, or even better, a test by someone who has one and is willing to give it a go. Disconnect the broadband, let the phone fail over to cellular, make a call to someone else, see if they can answer and have a conversation, what number does the call appear to be coming from and, lastly, who gets charged!

Lastly @stephenbrowning

The OFCOM requirements for emergency situation are actually quite small - provision has to be made, for a customer to be able to contact the emergency services (Fire, Police, Ambulance and Coast Guard), for a minimum of one hour in the event of a 'localised' power failure, which includes just the house in question or the immediate vicinity. The v3 EBUL would certainly satisfy that requirement

[goslow]

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@jem101 wrote:

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@goslow wrote:

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Snip..

AIUI, the current version is now being updated to allow calls to other numbers (beyond 999 only) if the main landline is down. Calls are charged as per the customer's landline package.

A VM tech installs and configures the equipment.

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Goslow, are we sure that this is correct? <snip>

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Only a few mentions on here to go on (in relation to visits to 'update' existing backup units). Then a few mentions in topics from the forum team, VIPs and customers

Message #2 below, forum team
https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Home-Phone/We-re-updating-your-Emergency-Backup-Line/m-p/528693...

Message #3 below, VIP
https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Home-Phone/Emergency-backup-line/td-p/5300026

Message #60 below, customer
https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Home-Phone/Sloppy-text-from-VM/m-p/5293987#M189926

but it does seem it's 'a thing'. If it is so, then I'd agree it is surprisingly joined-up thinking from VM.

Doubtless it is in response to the widespread criticism that the 21CV offering as-was lacked any kind of resilience for vulnerable groups to phone friends/family in an emergency in the 21CV landline was down.

[stephenbrowning]

To Hero

"I don't think there is an expectation that a majority of customers would need/want information on how to wire up extension sockets themselves."

Indeed, most Extensions would have been wired by an installer so the owner wont have a clue what to do. 

Hence the argument that Clearer info is needed from VM installations with simple questions to each customer about their installation.

As regards the OFCOM requirement for Emergency Communication, do they regards the Cellular contact system option VM have produced as reliable?

Noting that VM, with their existing Fibre+Coax route to premises is probably the Broadband Service best placed for rapid migration to VoiP.

I take it the other Service providers all use Openreach Fibre+thin copper and that enables high capacity broadband as the Fibre gets nearer to the property and the copper gets shorter?  Road Cabinets as with VM.

Regards

Steve