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naxman
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BT Premiun Phone handset, Trucall and VOIP

We have noticed that after changing to VOIP (the phone now plugs into the hub) the call guardian service on our phone handset has stopped working and withheld numbers are not challenged and come straight through.  This is on a BT8500 phone using the Truecall system, simply put numbers not in the phones contacts, withheld numbers or overseas numbers are challenged.  The phone does not ring, the caller is asked to state their name then press #, the phone then rings saying we have an announced call and we hear the caller's name and decide if we want to take the call.  This is a great system and has worked well for 5 years.  We thought the phone must be at fault as Caller ID is enabled and working.  So we bought new phone BT Premium Phone, installed it, same issue. The phone base unit is plugged directly into the hub, the base includes the Truecall software.

I asked BT's community and they advised:-

The point is , the true call works on ‘CLI’ , basically on a POTS system, before ringing is applied , a FSK data burst is sent ( FSK , frequency shift keying ) , so if CLI is present , and you have caller display , then the calling line info is displayed.....all call blocking phones do is interact with this data ( or lack of it )
You have moved to a VOIP system, that , in order to be compatible with ‘legacy’ equipment , should be designed to mimic a plain old telephony system , your VOIP provider apparently doesn’t currently do this.

There are standard protocols for this type of thing the ITU-T ( formally the CCITT ) set, presumably either your VOIP provider hasn’t implemented the required protocols fully , or the call blocker only guarantees its use on non VOIP systems, either way your call vetting is going to be sub optimal until the VOIP provider tweaks their system.....so ( and I wasn’t being argumentative) the onus is on VM

So my question is have VM changed the CLI protocol in VOIP so that it is NOT compliant with legacy handsets? If so is there a work around?

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nodrogd
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Re: BT Premiun Phone handset, Trucall and VOIP

Virgin is not using VoIP. The call is converted to radio frequency & transmitted to the local optical node cabinet, replacing the old twisted pair copper line. From there onward the call is treated exactly the same as a standard landline. CLI should work exactly the same on hub based & POTS lines.

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naxman
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Message 3 of 27
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Re: BT Premiun Phone handset, Trucall and VOIP

Thanks for that explanation but doesn’t explain why the call guardian/Truecall has stoped working.  We’ve had the original phone for five years without problem. We thought the phone was faulty and bought a more up to date version but the problem persists. The only thing that has changed is the move to plugging the phone into the hub rather than the dedicated copper cable to the cabinet. 

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sskelly
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Re: BT Premiun Phone handset, Trucall and VOIP

I am having this problem as well. I bought a new BT Premium Phone yesterday in an attempt to screen out nuisance calls, our phone line is into the hub.

It does not screen unknown numbers, I have hidden the caller ID from my mobile and called the BT phone and although it shows number withheld, the call rings and goes to answerphone (I have tried setting to Block and Announce but they still get through).

The only way I could get anything to block was by setting my mobile back to display its number and then adding that number to the blocked list. 

There seems to be some incompatibility as the OP suggests.

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naxman
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Re: BT Premiun Phone handset, Trucall and VOIP

Yes I am really disappointed that using the hub connection means that legacy systems are no longer working.  I suspect that the way CLI (caller id) is handled via this method is the issue.  I think Virgin need to tell it's customers that this may be the case when they port people from standard copper wire to a hub connection.  We wonder if there is a way to go back to the old copper as we found the Call Guardian/Truecall freatures of our BT phone invaluable in screening out nuisance calls.

goslow
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Re: BT Premiun Phone handset, Trucall and VOIP

Very disappointing for both sskelly and naxman as the Truecall system is really useful and effective. Have you tried contacting Truecall direct for any input from them?

I do appreciate we are talking about the built-in Truecall variant on the BT phone, and not a standalone, however ....

I am aware in the past (5 to 10 years ago) they had some issues with VM Caller ID on the standalone device and were able to remotely (I think?) make changes to the units to fix it so they are aware of past caller ID problems on VM (aside from new the 21CV issue).

Truecall might

a) not be aware of the issue as yet on the BT Premium Phone on VM (21CV)
b) be aware of it and have some wisdom to share
c) be able to advise if it is possible to use a Truecall standalone device on a VM 21CV system (which could be an alternative route, if it worked, and might be easier than trying to move your phone line again)
d) may have more flexibility on a standalone unit for configuration changes to account for the VM system

Some comment from VM team on the subject would be helpful.

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naxman
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Message 7 of 27
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Re: BT Premiun Phone handset, Trucall and VOIP

Really annoyed that VM have moved us onto a configuration that does not replicate the original system.  We won't be alone in this as VM are moving more and more users to hub connections.  I really expect them to ensure they offer complete compatibility when they move users or at least warn people - who want's to move to a system where your existing phone doesn't work properly (or as it did originally).

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sskelly
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Message 8 of 27
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Re: BT Premiun Phone handset, Trucall and VOIP

Thanks for the comments @goslow.

I think I will have to return the new phone(s). 

I was told that VM are experiencing more and more problems with phone lines because the lines into houses are now getting old and problematic. Their solution is to switch to 'voip' (because it is obviously the cheapest solution). It is a shame that the switch to 'voip' leaves deficiencies in the quality of the service.

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naxman
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Message 9 of 27
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Re: BT Premiun Phone handset, Trucall and VOIP

Just a reminder it's not VOIP (see earlier post), but there is an issue with VM moving customers to their hub connection without telling customers that their existing expensive home phones my loose most of their inbuilt functionality.  I don't think this is right.

sskelly
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Message 10 of 27
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Re: BT Premiun Phone handset, Trucall and VOIP

Thanks naxman. 

Thanks to Amazon's great returns policy I have sent the phones back and had a refund. I am pretty gutted because I was looking forward to getting rid of the nuisance calls. I have emailed Truecall to see if their device is compatible, I'll report back.