Virgin Media Community

[Laggy_Mclagface]

Hi all,

keep getting the connection not stable with lag, skip and blurring on stadia at peak times.  I see this whole latency thing has been done to death on the forums before but they've suggested I post here, seems to be a bit of a can kicking exercise to me but here goes nothing anyway.

Here's my BQM

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/bee55bd48b75d212c11f5f401f0582fd578726fa-27-01-2021

Log

Downstream bonded channels
Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID
1 163000000 7.5 40 256 qam 4
2 139000000 8.5 40 256 qam 1
3 147000000 8.1 40 256 qam 2
4 155000000 7.9 40 256 qam 3
5 171000000 7.5 40 256 qam 5
6 179000000 7.5 40 256 qam 6
7 187000000 7.4 40 256 qam 7
8 195000000 6.9 40 256 qam 8
9 203000000 6.8 40 256 qam 9
10 211000000 6.5 40 256 qam 10
11 219000000 6.5 40 256 qam 11
12 227000000 6.4 40 256 qam 12
13 235000000 6.3 40 256 qam 13
14 243000000 5.5 40 256 qam 14
15 251000000 5.5 40 256 qam 15
16 259000000 5.8 40 256 qam 16
17 267000000 6.3 40 256 qam 17
18 275000000 6.3 40 256 qam 18
19 283000000 6.9 40 256 qam 19
20 291000000 6.9 40 256 qam 20
21 299000000 7 40 256 qam 21
22 307000000 6.9 40 256 qam 22
23 315000000 6.5 40 256 qam 23
24 323000000 6 40 256 qam 24

Downstream bonded channels
Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
1 Locked 40.3 28 146
2 Locked 40.3 40 62
3 Locked 40.3 32 73
4 Locked 40.3 36 66
5 Locked 40.3 46 136
6 Locked 40.3 40 68
7 Locked 40.9 43 82
8 Locked 40.3 34 58
9 Locked 40.3 33 56
10 Locked 40.3 37 69
11 Locked 40.3 37 59
12 Locked 40.9 27 57
13 Locked 40.3 32 67
14 Locked 40.9 36 130
15 Locked 40.3 57 59
16 Locked 40.9 40 54
17 Locked 40.3 25 68
18 Locked 40.3 27 64
19 Locked 40.9 38 61
20 Locked 40.3 27 65
21 Locked 40.9 25 74
22 Locked 40.9 38 161
23 Locked 40.3 28 145
24 Locked 40.3 31 63

and occasional T3 timeouts

I didn't have issues on my previous ISP or on VM for the first few weeks after joining and it's fine overnight.

I have been through the usual tech support call including factory reset and been told there are no problems, that's where it ended as I'm running a Deco M5 mesh which I been using pre VM. I've tried everything I can find suggested or think of myself from device reboot to unplugging the mesh and connecting one device only via wifi to the hub.  The logs mean nothing to me but the tech guy when I called said it was all good.

All and any suggestions gratefully received.

Cheers 

[Andruser · Accepted solution]

BQM indicates over-utilisation (local network congestion).  If the over-utilisation is solely Covid related (due to home working, home schooling, and higher volumes of leisure interent use) then the problem will probably resolve as and when we get back to some sense of normality, which I'm guessing is some months away.  If it is not wholly related to Covid, but includes times when "normal traffic" is still too much for the local network, it will improve post-Covid but not fully resolve without action by VM to increase capacity.  And whilst I'd like to be more positive on that last one, VM's track record on over-utilisation is sometimes very poor, with more than a few reports of multiple missed resolution dates, so there's no way of knowing.

Not sure that's much comfort, so given that a fix in the next week or two is not going to happen, what would outcome would you like, because we can offer advice accordingly?

[Laggy_Mclagface]

Hi,

thanks for answering, after reading other threads I had pretty much concluded it myself but it's good to get it confirmed.

I think the resolution is to get BT back and run both or just give up on gaming.  I was with virgin years ago and the customer experience when you had problems was poor then, looking at these forums it looks like it's got worse.  I'm no network engineer but know enough to recognise bull when I hear it and it's clear that's all I'm going to get from them and I really can't be botherd to chase it, still lesson releaned just I can't believe I was stupid enoght to come back to them, still only 14 months before I can escape 😞

The overutilisation makes a lot of sence, I took the black friday deal which ran forever and it started to degrade a few weeks after I was connected and the fitter told me they were very busy with new installs.

[Andruser]

@Laggy_Mclagface still only 14 months before I can escape

Phone up retentions ("thinking of leaving") explain the problem, ask if you can be released from contract without penalty.  Sometimes they'll say yes, often they'll say no.  If they say no, use the VM complaints process (and very probably arbitration at CISAS ) to be released from contract without penalty. If you need to do this, the grounds of your complaint is the poor performance, and your request for release from contract without penalty is twofold: First the Consumer Rights Act 2015 that requires any consumer service to be provided with "reasonable skill and care", and second, the Ofcom Fairness Commitments, that Virgin Media have signed up to in 2019, which state "customers’ services work as promised, reliably over time. If things go wrong providers give a prompt response to fix problems and take appropriate action to help their customers, which may include providing compensation where relevant. If providers can’t fix problems with core services they have promised to deliver within a reasonable period, customers can walk away from their contract with no penalty."

In the complaint, be clear that the outcome you want is simply release from contract without penalty due to the over-utilisation problem, and state that this is the simplest, cheapest, quickest outcome for both parties.  Also state that if they cannot agree to that, you request the immediate issue of a deadlock letter confirming VM's refusal, in order that you can immediately escalate to CISAS, and when you escalate, you ask CISAS to release you from contract, plus compensation for the poor service over recent months, and for the delay caused by VM's refusal to settle, plus compensation for the hassle, and the company's non-compliance with the Ofcom fairness guidelines.  Keep records of BQMs, of any calls or contacts with VM staff, comments by field technicians, as you may need them if you escalate to CISAS.

If you need to go to formal complaint and then CISAS, it's a bit of a hassle and may not be very quick, but if you're paying (say) £45 a month, then there's six hundred quid at stake here.  Are you really willing to say "too much effort" ?

[Laggy_Mclagface]

I have already started looking elsewhere but I need a bundle with the sport for the wife, she's mad about the footy and also currently working from home.

Also we'll want to keep our number and even though they're seperate technologies we had to wait for BT to release it to VM which meant a longer wait for installation and we couldn't overlap, not sure if it's different going the other way.

The only thing suffering is my gaming and I am starting to think the sucking it up and leaving at the end never to return may be the easiest path and that I should get my C64, Amiga or PS2 out again🤣.

[Andruser]

I see.  "Happy wife, happy life, unhappy wife,......"

Simple, low risk solution: Get in a 35 Mbps Openreach line for the sole purposes of gaming.  A quick gander at Uswitch says you should be able to get that for about £23 if you'll take a crap provider (Plusnet) and an 18 month contract, and annual price rises, or £30 a month from a decent provider (Zen) with a 12 month contract, and fixed lifetime pricing.

[Laggy_Mclagface]

Hi, thanks for getting back to me.

I connected plusnet at my mums when she was living alone, ran smarthings on it and a few security cameras so I could keep an eye on her flat and they seemed OK to me.

I know the FTTC is openreach rebranded by the suppliers but do openreach supply anything else or just the connection? Surely other than cost and customer service they should all be much of a muchness.

Can't really justify spending extra on something I should already be getting at the minute tbh, with my stadia subscription paying £35ish for a bit of gaming can't happen.

[Andruser]

@Laggy_Mclagface I know the FTTC is openreach rebranded by the suppliers but do openreach supply anything else or just the connection? Surely other than cost and customer service they should all be much of a muchness.

Openreach provide the exchange and the line to your house, everything else is up to the ISP (including options to take certain additional elements from Openreach).  The difference between ISPs can be very marked, because the choices open to ISPs include whose DNS they use, whose backhaul, what routing and how much capacity they buy.  There's also a country mile between the best and worst when it comes to identifying problems and getting Openreach to fix them.  They're also better at holding Openreach to its service level agreements.  Which is why companies like AAISP and Aquiss get nearly five star reviews on Trustpilot or ISP Review, and Plusnet get about 1.4 out of five.  Zen are a strong compromise between a mass market proposition and decent service.  In terms of cost, there is a wide range - you can get a bargain bucket "customer acquisition" offer from somebody like Talktalk, or Plusnet, that will always be cheaper than AAISP, Aquiss, CIX, IDNet, uno or Zen.  But any economies of scale are (like VM) completely consumed by vast marketing spending, and the price difference is largely driven by cost cutting in back office, technical support and customer service.  You pay your money and take your choice.

It's a pity that VM haven't been forced to unbundle their physical network like BT was with Openreach - I'd like to have a cable connection (which round my way is fast, acceptably reliable and not over-utilised),  but all customer service and support provided by one of those smaller ISPs.  If there were competition for customers over VM's network, I suspect that the complacency and obfuscation on the matter of over-utilisation wouldn't be possible.  Lower contention rates would cost more in terms of network provision, but given that I'm already out of fixed contract and paying VM poor value standard tariff, and that the way VM mismanaged its own business to achieve average revenue per user of around £51 a month, I don't think that lower contention from a third party ISP would affect the price very much.

[Laggy_Mclagface]

Hi,

thanks for the info, been telling people for ages that the services were all just rebranded openreach and the only difference is price and service for ages 😬.

I have been talking to VM on twitter they were going to flag this for their technical people to look at but nothing yet, I'll give them a bump in the morning.