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Avaughan
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Message 1 of 10
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Lag & Latency

Hi Everyone, 

I'm getting unbearable latency & lag when attempting to play games online and it's at the point now where I just don't want to play anymore, therefore not getting what I'm paying for. 

I've seen a few other people having the same problem and some recommendations that actually posting here seems pointless. It's a cry for help - anybody!?!

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Andrew-G
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Message 2 of 10
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Re: Lag & Latency

Setup a BQM and post a link to a shared chart.  after 24 hours we'll have the data to comment.

If (as seems likely at this time) it's over-utilisation, then my other posts on the subject will outline your options.

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Avaughan
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Message 3 of 10
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Re: Lag & Latency

Thanks for the swift response! Here's the link which has been up for a couple hours already

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/536b3e5e020a2746eb2b3ffb8ae8e8b9a42bfe78 

 

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Anonymous
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Message 4 of 10
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Re: Lag & Latency


@Avaughan wrote:

Thanks for the swift response! Here's the link which has been up for a couple hours already

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/536b3e5e020a2746eb2b3ffb8ae8e8b9a42bfe78 

 


BQM is terrible.

You either have a bad line or local congestion/oversubscription.

Could you access your router using http://192.168.0.1/ or http://192.168.100.1 for modem mode . You shouldn't need log in, select the 'Check Router Status' option and paste your 'Downstream', 'Upstream', and 'Network Log' tabs? Please copy/paste this data as text, split between multiple posts (Sometimes you have to click 'Post' twice due to an error message).

Avaughan
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Re: Lag & Latency

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID

15710000008.838256 qam21
241100000010.538256 qam1
341900000010.538256 qam2
442700000010.638256 qam3
543500000010.138256 qam4
64430000001038256 qam5
745100000010.538256 qam6
845900000010.438256 qam7
94670000001038256 qam8
1047500000010.438256 qam9
1148300000010.438256 qam10
1249100000010.338256 qam11
134990000001038256 qam12
1450700000010.338256 qam13
1551500000010.138256 qam14
1652300000010.138256 qam15
175310000001038256 qam16
185390000001038256 qam17
195470000009.538256 qam18
205550000009.438256 qam19
21563000000938256 qam20
225790000007.938256 qam22
235870000008.138256 qam23
245950000008.138256 qam24



Downstream bonded channels

Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors

1Locked38.651620
2Locked38.64730
3Locked38.95730
4Locked38.94500
5Locked38.96530
6Locked38.96220
7Locked38.67550
8Locked38.69410
9Locked38.911300
10Locked38.911990
11Locked38.616170
12Locked38.615930
13Locked38.919060
14Locked38.616620
15Locked38.923060
16Locked38.920960
17Locked38.921440
18Locked38.622060
19Locked38.928050
20Locked38.934800
21Locked38.644410
22Locked38.963300
23Locked38.956380
24Locked38.959800

 

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Avaughan
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Message 6 of 10
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Re: Lag & Latency

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID

16029998138.5512064 qam1
23940000038.5512064 qam4
34620000038.5512064 qam3
45370000038.5512064 qam2



Upstream bonded channels

Channel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts

1ATDMA0000
2ATDMA0000
3ATDMA0000
4ATDMA0010
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Avaughan
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Re: Lag & Latency

Network Log

Time Priority Description

02/01/1970 04:07:0ErrorToD request sent- No Response received;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
02/01/1970 04:06:16noticeLAN login Success;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 22:03:27ErrorToD request sent- No Response received;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 22:03:8noticeLAN login Success;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 21:31:56ErrorToD request sent- No Response received;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 21:29:51noticeLAN login Success;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 21:05:1ErrorToD request sent- No Response received;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 21:02:0noticeLAN login Success;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 14:04:16ErrorToD request sent- No Response received;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 14:02:29criticalNo Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 00:00:33ErrorToD request sent- No Response received;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
01/01/1970 00:01:54Warning!ToD request sent - No Response received;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
25/11/2020 06:24:39criticalNo Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
24/11/2020 20:07:5noticeDHCP Renew - lease parameters tftp file-cmreg-vmdg505-bbt060-b.cm modified;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
24/11/2020 20:07:5ErrorDHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/11/2020 17:09:8criticalNo Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/11/2020 13:44:10noticeDHCP Renew - lease parameters tftp file-cmreg-vmdg505-bbt060-b.cm modified;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
20/11/2020 13:44:10ErrorDHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
18/11/2020 04:01:20criticalNo Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
17/11/2020 20:31:7noticeLAN login Success;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
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Anonymous
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Message 8 of 10
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Re: Lag & Latency


@Avaughan wrote:

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID

15710000008.838256 qam21
241100000010.538256 qam1
341900000010.538256 qam2
442700000010.638256 qam3
543500000010.138256 qam4
64430000001038256 qam5
745100000010.538256 qam6
845900000010.438256 qam7
94670000001038256 qam8
1047500000010.438256 qam9
1148300000010.438256 qam10
1249100000010.338256 qam11
134990000001038256 qam12
1450700000010.338256 qam13
1551500000010.138256 qam14
1652300000010.138256 qam15
175310000001038256 qam16
185390000001038256 qam17
195470000009.538256 qam18
205550000009.438256 qam19
21563000000938256 qam20
225790000007.938256 qam22
235870000008.138256 qam23
245950000008.138256 qam24



Downstream bonded channels

Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors

1Locked38.651620
2Locked38.64730
3Locked38.95730
4Locked38.94500
5Locked38.96530
6Locked38.96220
7Locked38.67550
8Locked38.69410
9Locked38.911300
10Locked38.911990
11Locked38.616170
12Locked38.615930
13Locked38.919060
14Locked38.616620
15Locked38.923060
16Locked38.920960
17Locked38.921440
18Locked38.622060
19Locked38.928050
20Locked38.934800
21Locked38.644410
22Locked38.963300
23Locked38.956380
24Locked38.959800

 


A lot of your downstream channels are out of spec on power level (-6 to +10 is in spec, 0dB is optimal).

These levels will need to be reduced by an engineer visit, however your area may still be oversubscribed/congested.

Also your Network log doesn't look great.

lav_98
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Message 9 of 10
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Re: Lag & Latency

I've had the exact same issue. 3 engineers and a senior engineer later. I made the decision to leave. The congestion on the line is an issue in most places. They don't want to invest in fixing the issue and it's only when I mentioned leaving did they admit the over-utilisation on the upstreams and downstreams. It's honestly shocking how this company gets away with it because you aren't getting what you paid for. I would advise looking at either full-fibre networks or Zen is a great ISP for low latency gaming. Good luck, Don't wait cos I waited a year and nothing happened!

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Andrew-G
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Re: Lag & Latency

That BQM confirms over-utilisation. 

From my stock reply:The BQM shows a typical over-utilisation pattern - you see how it's very poor during normal waking hours, and then peachy from about half past midnight to 9 am? Shows that the network and your hub are working perfectly when there isn't too much traffic. You can choose to believe whether this is Covid related, or whether VM simply sell contracts until (and indeed after) the local network is at capacity, but the outcome is the same for now.

Nothing you can do to improve matters. In some areas VM do indeed undertake work to rejig the local networks to balance loads and eliminate over-utilisation. But sometimes that's either not possible, or judged uneconomic if there's a need to spend money on more equipment. And sadly VM won't ever admit the truth, so there will be a fault reference and a "fix date", but there's no way of knowing if that fix date is actually backed by an actual plan of action and programme of works. Quite often it seem not, and as the fix date approaches it is simply moved a month or two ahead.

There is a little glimmer of hope, that as and when your area is upgraded to DOCSIS 3.1, and sufficient customers are using the Hub 4, then that ought to improve matters, but this could be many months, even a year or two hence. Simply having a Hub 4 on its own won't improve matters, and although VM aren't saying so, I suspect that even after D3.1 is active, a significant proportion of customers on an over-utilised segment would have to be using the Hub 4 before the benefits start to appear.  

Of late we've had a further lockdown, and the start of the 2020 game and console release cycle, both of which have driven traffic up hugely.  If the over-utilisation started suddenly in the past week or two, there's a hope that it will fade away when those influences decline, and my advice is to wait and see for a month or two, even if that's really inconvenient.  If the problem's longer standing then the earlier comments about expecting a resolution to take a lot longer probably apply, along with the potential remedy being to get a new ISP.  But if you go down new ISP route, check if you're liable for any VM early termination fees because you're in a fixed term contract, and make sure you speak to a competent ISP (AAISP, uno, Aquiss, IDNet, CIX, Zen Internet) to establish your expected speed and whether there's any existing contention (over-utilisation) issues on the Openreach network around you.  Failure to do the first could land you with a big bill, failure to do the second could mean you jump ship and find the situation is no better, but your broadband is slower.

Your options:

1) Sit it out, and hope that either VM do carry out improvement works, or that they get D3.1 and that this tactic actually does work.  If you're already in a D3.1 area, then (in theory) it is simply waiting for the Hub 4's to be installed and their collective benefit to hopefully materialise, but depending on the nature of the choke point, it may not work for everybody who has this problem..  

2) Get yourself a new ISP. If you're in a fixed term contract you'll probably have to use the VM complaints process (and arbitration at CISAS if need be) to try and be released from contract without penalty.


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