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Can VM fix hops on traceroutes?

So as a gamer its quite understandable that when things go wrong, we want them to be fixed. That being said, I have issues with addresses in the traceroute being missed out.  I was told previous that ICMP echo requests are configured to be ignored on the network earlier in the year and now WTFast have said the following...

It seems that there are several hops (actually three hops) on your network before you even reach the wtfast GPN that does not respond to ICMP packets. Without those packets, wtfast won't be able to calculate your ping accurately.

Unfortunately, we don't own these servers (as it happens before you reach the wtfast GPN) so we cannot do anything about it. You'll have to ask your ISP to have it fixed. You can extract the report you've sent (it's just a .zip file) and send the TracerouteText.txt file to your ISP.

 

 

VM, I hope this is something you can remedy because the level or frustration I have when playing Fifa 20 is enough to send a man crazy.

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Re: Can VM fix hops on traceroutes?

Hello

I am afraid whatever they are telling is incorrect, if you do a direct ping to the host that gives you the ping time. A lot of devices on the internet dont respond to the ICMP protocol that is the nature of security it doesn't stop an accurate measure of ping.

Taken from :- https://blog.securityevaluators.com/icmp-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-130413e56030 this makes good reading.

Blocking ICMP Traffic for Security

Network administrators often opt to disable ICMP on network devices to evade network mapping applications used by adversaries (e.g., Nmap and Nessus scans). Unwarranted actions such as network discovery attacks, covert communication channels, and network traffic redirection could all be executed with ICMP enabled.

I am afraid that will never change, due to the climate we live in.

Mike

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Re: Can VM fix hops on traceroutes?

Cheers for your input Mark, I do appreciate it.

 

It always seems to be the case that the ISP gets the blame but both EA and WTFast have laid blame on the hops.

WTFast has been a star in improving my routing to EA servers but the past few weeks the poor online connectivity has followed me wherever I go. 

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Re: Can VM fix hops on traceroutes?

VM aren't blocking the responses to the traceroutes. There are no 'hops' for the traceroute to use due to how the VM core network works.

VM's configuration isn't uncommon. Sky, TalkTalk and others do the same.

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Re: Can VM fix hops on traceroutes?

My comments are based off what I am being told so please excuse my ignorance on this topic. Im merely trying to gain understanding on this matter in the hope of correcting the issue if possible

Annotation 2019-11-11 221900.png

Ea and Wtfast are claiming these blank hops are the issue, the community on the VM forms and VM staff themselves argue that this is normal so, what is a man meant to do in this situation? haha

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Re: Can VM fix hops on traceroutes?


@CarlTSpeak wrote:

VM aren't blocking the responses to the traceroutes. There are no 'hops' for the traceroute to use due to how the VM core network works.

VM's configuration isn't uncommon. Sky, TalkTalk and others do the same.


I'd be interested to know exactly how that works.  Here's how I know tracert works.

  1. Set TTL to 1 
  2. Send packet to target
  3. wait for ICMP echo or destination unreachable response
  4. If  ICMP echo end trace
  5. If maximum TTL (default =30 end trace)
  6. increase TTL
  7. go to step 2

So while I accept that there are points in many networks that don'e send the destination unreachable response back, and even more confusingly some targets that don't send back an echo response, I find it difficult to understand your comment that there are no 'hops'

@SneakyBeakee 

All you need to understand is that if those hops were failing - then the traceroutes would stop at those hops.  However they don't.  They go on to reach the destination - more importantly we see no packet loss at the destination.

Tim

Edit - I do wonder if wtfast still use pathping as a diagnostic tool - because I know the missing hops do stop that from working 😞

Tim

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Re: Can VM fix hops on traceroutes?

@ravenstar68  

Here is WTFast response..

"Yes, it actually should not stop you from connecting to the game. However, this would mean that any/all of your ping meters will not be working properly (your in-game ping, even without wtfast, would most likely also be wrong which means that). Also, some of wtfast's functionalities would be hindered due to this e.g. ping meters, server sorting, routing, auto-connect, etc. (since it cannot make accurate calculations)."

I fail to understand why these hops are all of a sudden causing me issues when they existed when playing fifa 19 in the summer.  All I was reporting to the team was that over the past few weeks, I've been unsuccessful in finding a connection to EA servers that was lag-free. I lose the term lag loosely as I'm actually referring to really poor connectivity, this often means I get a multitude of issues. Typically during these periods, my ping is higher or...  the ping is low but, I get packet loss.  Typically I can disconnect and reconnect using a different route and the problem will be resolved but, it appears that all my connections are very poor at the moment. 

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Message 8 of 11
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Re: Can VM fix hops on traceroutes?

Sounds reasonable doesn’t it?

That seems to be part of the training of these support people.

Fob people off with plausible rubbish.

Ping meters do not care about intermediate hops.  They calculate the time the packets take to get to their destination.

Tim

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Message 9 of 11
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Re: Can VM fix hops on traceroutes?

The missing hops used to show several years ago, I'm sure the network architecture has changed since then though. Here's one of the first traceroutes I posted on this forum back in 2014 (when my area had horrific over-utilisation probems)

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 185 ms 265 ms 159 ms cpc67916-know12-2-0-gw.17-2.cable.virginm.net [62.30.212.1]
3 * 75 ms 100 ms know-geam-1a-ge211.network.virginmedia.net [81.97.115.61]
4 18 ms 87 ms 29 ms pres-core-2a-ae10-0.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.178.145]
5 99 ms 112 ms 108 ms leed-bb-2a-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.25]
6 119 ms 112 ms 23 ms manc-bb-2a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.65]
7 49 ms 110 ms * manc-bb-1d-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.118]
8 * 78 ms 105 ms tcma-ic-2-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.174.178]
9 101 ms 103 ms 99 ms 186-14-250-212.static.virginm.net [212.250.14.186]
10 71 ms 93 ms 83 ms cache.google.com [64.15.115.45]

 

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Message 10 of 11
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Re: Can VM fix hops on traceroutes?


@ravenstar68 wrote:

@CarlTSpeak wrote:

VM aren't blocking the responses to the traceroutes. There are no 'hops' for the traceroute to use due to how the VM core network works.

VM's configuration isn't uncommon. Sky, TalkTalk and others do the same.


I'd be interested to know exactly how that works.  Here's how I know tracert works.

  1. Set TTL to 1 
  2. Send packet to target
  3. wait for ICMP echo or destination unreachable response
  4. If  ICMP echo end trace
  5. If maximum TTL (default =30 end trace)
  6. increase TTL
  7. go to step 2

So while I accept that there are points in many networks that don'e send the destination unreachable response back, and even more confusingly some targets that don't send back an echo response, I find it difficult to understand your comment that there are no 'hops'

 


Oh this is easy enough. Your packets aren't native IP when they're traversing VM's core, there's an MPLS header in between the layer 2 header and the IP header. There are various ways to propagate the MPLS TTL to the IP TTL including not at all, so no hops appear, or every hop but no return path for the TTL expired as no native IP access between management plane of P router and device initiating the traceroute.

Google can fill in gaps, and I should have been more specific and said 'IP hops'. Just like using a VPN you only see the endpoints as your IP packets are encapsulated in something else same story here.