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Virgin deleting emails in non trash own deleted items folder

AndyWinch
On our wavelength

Well it looks like Virgin have a new trick.

I know that emails in trash are deleted after 7 days but I also have my own folder Deleted Items. In recent weeks, and after the deleted emails fiasco was solved, Virgin are now also deleting the emails in my own deleted folder periodically once they are over 7 days old - to be clear this is not linked to the trash folder which is clearly separate.

Is this a new policy or another error. I would appreciate it if you stopped deleting emails in my personal folders please.

29 REPLIES 29

用心棒
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Are you able to provide more detail about your personal Deleted Items folder, i.e. where it was created and is used from? If its been manual set in other email client review the client's settings in case it is automatically clearing deleted emails older that 7 days as well.

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coenoby
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@AndyWinch wrote:

I know that emails in trash are deleted after 7 days but I also have my own folder Deleted Items.  - to be clear this is not linked to the trash folder which is clearly separate.


I'm not a VM staff member but I cannot remember seeing that reported on this forum before.

Is your "Deleted Items" folder a sub folder of VM's own Trash folder or a completely separate folder in the "My folders" section.

Let me know and I'll set up a "Deleted Items" folder the same as yours in one of my VM email accounts to see if it replicates that behaviour.

However, you need to be aware that VM customers regularly post here saying that VM emails have gone missing from their VM email accounts so what you are seeing may just be another example of that scary phenomenon. Edited to add, here is an example post reporting exactly that posted yesterday https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Email/No-emails-in-folders 

To be honest, everyone using a VM email account should be backing up their emails away from their VM accounts. VM's broadband terms and conditions do say it's the customer's responsibility to back up their emails. Also, it seems that VM do not keep backups so once emails disappear from your VM account they cannot be recovered. 

Personally, I only use a VM email account to receive notification emails from this forum.

Coenoby

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AndyWinch
On our wavelength

Thank you all. My Deleted Items folder is in my personal folders. It is just like any other folder I have created myself, and is not for example a sub folder of Trash. It may just as well be named ArchivePre2020 to pick a random example.

I got caught up in the missing emails issue recently, but dug myself out of that hole with ample backups, just like I have done this time. There is nothing in my email client software that purges any folders like this. I suspect that VM are searching for folders with a Deleted in the name or Deleted Items, and treating it like Trash.

This happened for the first time about the end of August 23 and I assumed I had done it somehow, that though being a mystery, and especially as it left the most recent week's worth of deleted emails. It then repeated this exactly the same again yesterday, also leaving a week of emails. It follows the emails being deleted on and by the IMAP server.

I will be very interested to see if anyone can indeed replicate this thank you. The evidence though points the finger firmly at VM because of the similarity with how Trash is handled. Innocent until proven guilty though, or a confession perhaps.

coenoby
Very Insightful Person
Very Insightful Person

@AndyWinch 

Thanks for coming back with that. Sorry for a bit of delay in coming back to you.

Firstly:

I set up a "Deleted Items" folder in the VM email account where I receive my VM forum notification emails. That's all I have ever used VM email for if I'm honest. I have moved some old VM emails from the inbox into the Test Trash folder.

I have also set up a "Deleted Items 2" folder and moved some emails that were already in the VM Trash folder in case that as they get treated differently.

So we will see what happens with them but I'm not expecting to see anything deleted from those folders.

Secondly:

I am uncertain what you mean when you say "It follows the emails being deleted on and by the IMAP"server."  

The IMAP server cannot trigger the deletion itself.

If you also use an email client such as Outlook, Thunderbird or and email app on a mobile device it sounds as if you have a rule set up in that email client or app to delete emails that fit certain criteria.

 If the email client or app is set delete emails in that "Deleted Items" folder after 7 days it will flag the relevant emails for deletion after  7 days and the IMAP protocol will then simply reflect that change in your webmail account,

I would have a check through your email app/client and see if there is a rule set up that could be doing that. To be honest I think that is the most likely cause for what you are seeing.

Coenoby

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AndyWinch
On our wavelength

Thanks and will be interesting to see how your setup progresses over coming weeks.

I use Windows Live Mail on a PC as my email client. I used to use it for POP3 and then switched over to IMAP very many months ago. It worked fine for a long time and until the deleted emails fiasco recently, then it was fine again until end August when all bar the previous weeks emails disappeared in my personal folder Deleted Items. I recovered them from backups and the same happened again a few days ago. I have recovered these again and am waiting for the next event.

I am doing nothing and have no rules set up, I never have, but checked just in case a finger slipped. I have nothing setup on a mobile or any other devices. I only do emails on this PC through the client or I may sign in very occasionally to view the webmail. This could not be a simpler setup and I change nothing.

I have not deleted these emails in my email client, they disappeared on my client because they firstly disappeared on the VM server. This is what I meant by 'It follows the emails being deleted on and by the IMAP server'. Interesting I actually saw the email count in my personal Deleted Files folder start reducing when I viewed that folder, implying that they had gone from the server. So there are no 7 day rules on my side of the fence and my Deleted Items folder is definitely in my personal folders and I can also see Trash as a separate folder which is empty.

Conclusion is that my personal Deleted items folder is having emails removed on the server - not by me or my email client - and this is mapping into what I then see in my email client. So either I am missing something which is possible or VM, from recently, is including personal folders with deleted in the name in their trash 7 day purge, perhaps this code arrived with any new software after the serious missing email issues. Interesting this, which is why I posted.

coenoby
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@AndyWinch 

Ok, but when you say " So there are no 7 day rules on my side of the fence" does that mean that you have checked that there are no rules set up in your VM webmail account.

There have been cases posted here where it seems hackers have accessed VM webmail accounts and set up rules to delete specific emails for their own reasons. So if you have not checked then I would advise you to do so. Follow steps 1 to 3 as below.

filter rules steps.png

 

By the way, just an aside but personally I would not be using Windows Live Mail.  Microsoft have stopped supporting it in 2016 or 2017 and any bugs that have developed in recent years will not have been fixed.

Microsoft's free Mail app is a better bet and the free open source Thunderbird is an even better one.

Coenoby

 

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AndyWinch
On our wavelength

Thank you. I have no rules set up anywhere my side, never have, in either my email client or VM webmail.

The webmail page you refer to says :-

E-mail Filter Rules
There is no rule defined

Windows Live Mail is very stable the minimalist way I use it. In fact I prefer it to the MS free Mail app. I have just checked again that there are no message rules. In fact my email client will not allow any rules for IMAP.

You are helping me become increasingly convinced that this is a server side issue.

coenoby
Very Insightful Person
Very Insightful Person

@AndyWinch wrote:

E-mail Filter Rules
There is no rule defined


Thanks for checking that.

It could well be a VM issue although whether you'll get a really satisfactory answer from them is a moot point.

As I said in my first post, there continues to be a steady stream of reports on this forum where people reporting that emails have mysteriously gone missing from their VM email accounts. Where the cause is eventually discovered it is usually down to them being deleted by an email app. VM rarely comes up with any explanation as to why VM has unexpectedly deleted any emails.

I'll report back how my "Deleted Items" folder fares.

I do apologise for always asking for clarification on what you say but looking back to a previous post you said:

"they disappeared on my client because they firstly disappeared on the VM server"

So you can definitely confirm that emails moved to your "Deleted items" folder in LIve Mail do actually appear in the "Deleted Items" folder in your VM webmail account?

The reason I ask is just to be certain that the IMAP process is correctly syncing those emails back to the "Deleted Items" folder in VM webmail?

On the other hand if the IMAP folder configuration in Live Mail is wrong it could be putting those emails into the regular "Trash" folder in VM webmail. If so, that would explain why they go missing after 7 days.

Sorry to seem pedantic but I cannot see what you can see and the devil is in the detail when troubleshooting cases like this. Sorry 😧

Coenoby

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AndyWinch
On our wavelength

Thank you and yes it is important to seek clarification also because it ensures I am increasingly sure myself too.

All my Deleted Items emails are also in My Folders/Deleted Items, and right now that is all of them. Trash is empty on webmail just like it is in my email client. I have watched this all sync which was also part of my testing when I converted from pop3 to IMAP way back. It works very well ordinarily.

It will be interesting to see what happens in due course for both of us.