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VPoorEmail
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Message 11 of 60
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Re: VIRGIN MEDIA - AN IRRESPONSIBLE ORGANISATION - ALLOWS SPAM IN BUT NOT OUT

I can understand that the "unique identifier" could relate to Virgin finding the spam on its outbound passage, and, therefore, that it wouldn't be in the message, but it doesn't matter, because ...
By viewing the source, thanks to you, I can see various "identity strings" and ip addresses which could well lead to the sender. At the very least, I would expect to be able to identify the sender's server. If that's the case, I would happily blacklist everything which has passed through that server.
The only thing necessary might be for Virgin to supply the facilities check the 'source' within the e-mail filter - 1 man-day to do and test the code?
But I'm wondering if it's already there, in the filter, and it's referred to as the "Envelope"? I will check.
If so, it's likely to support a solution.
Perhaps Virgin will spend a man-week providing some decent documentation sometime?
No. I thought not.

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Message 12 of 60
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Re: VIRGIN MEDIA - AN IRRESPONSIBLE ORGANISATION - ALLOWS SPAM IN BUT NOT OUT

Example of rule to examine a specific header field value:2020-12-01.jpeg

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VPoorEmail
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Message 13 of 60
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Re: VIRGIN MEDIA - AN IRRESPONSIBLE ORGANISATION - ALLOWS SPAM IN BUT NOT OUT

I have now made some progress and found the following:
1. BAD NEWS: If you use the 'discard' action, then the Virgin software does just the opposite - it accepts the message into your inbox. What a surprise!
2. GOOD NEWS: I am now diverting many Bitcoin spam messages per day by using the following string as a regex filter on the From, Subject and Body fields.

[B?b?](.?.?.?)(I?i?!?)(.?.?.?)[T?t?](.?.?.?)[C?c?](.?.?.?)[O?o?0?](.?.?.?)[I?i?!?](.?.?.?)[N?n?]

You will see that the regex string consists of 13 segments which are separated by different types of dividers - () and [ ]. In sequence, these check for:

1 = Capital 'B' or small 'b'
2 = zero, 1, 2, or 3 spaces
3 = Capital 'I' or small 'i' or ! or nothing
4 = As for 2 above. Similarly 6, 8, 10, and 12
5 = Capital 'T' or small 't' or nothing. Similarly 7, 9, 11, 13 for the remaining characters of Bitcoin.

So the above successfully catches emails containing the following strings, amongst others:

Bit
bitcoin
B T C
bitc0in
BTN
B T N
B!tc0in

By the way, although I have ticked the box to receive a message when anybody contributes here, I never receive these in the form of an email. I can just look at a message when I visit here. I have to enter the forum to look for it. So it's completely useless. Another surprise from Virgin software!

So don't expect a further comment from me - any time soon.

ravenstar68
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Message 14 of 60
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Re: VIRGIN MEDIA - AN IRRESPONSIBLE ORGANISATION - ALLOWS SPAM IN BUT NOT OUT

@VPoorEmail 's comment is like a red rag to a bull to me.  It makes no sense for a discard action to put the mail in the inbox.  However with a GREP rule, you've got a whole lot of possibilities for things to go wrong.  I don't care how good you are.  I've also found that some of the rules that work when you put into GREP testers, don't always work when put into real life situations.

So I decided to test the Discard action itself on a simple mail rule - discard mails with a subject of "remove this"

I then sent a mail with that subject line.  Followed by another test mail with a different subject line.

Results:

Test mail with "remove this" - was not received.
Test mail with "Send this" (not matching any rule) was received.

Therefore whatever is going wrong with @VPoorEmail 's rule is unlikely to be a misapplication of the Discard this action on Virgin Media's email system.

Tim

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VPoorEmail
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Message 15 of 60
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Re: VIRGIN MEDIA - AN IRRESPONSIBLE ORGANISATION - ALLOWS SPAM IN BUT NOT OUT

Thanks for your interest, Tim, but please note the following:

You said "It makes no sense for a discard action to put the mail in the inbox."  We agree!  I said " If you use the 'discard' action, then the Virgin software does just the opposite - it accepts the message into your inbox. What a surprise!"  I don't think it makes any sense, either.

By the way, what's GREP?

(C-h-a-a-a-a-a-r-g-e!)  😀

 

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Message 16 of 60
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Re: VIRGIN MEDIA - AN IRRESPONSIBLE ORGANISATION - ALLOWS SPAM IN BUT NOT OUT

So you're clever enough to figure out that Virgin Media's discard rule puts mail in the inbox, but you don't know what the grep command is.

I rest my case.

GREP - Gnu Regular eXpression tool, searches files or strings for occurrences of the test string.

My test proves that your assertion about the discard action itself is incorrect.

Tim

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Message 17 of 60
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Re: VIRGIN MEDIA - AN IRRESPONSIBLE ORGANISATION - ALLOWS SPAM IN BUT NOT OUT


@VPoorEmail wrote:

I said " If you use the 'discard' action, .............it accepts the message into your inbox.


Not on my ntlworld account. 😉

Earlier today I set up a filter to discard emails containing "Test rule" in the subject line and sent a test email to my ntlworld account and cc'd to my main (Non VM) account.

The email arrived in my main account straight away but a couple of hours later there is still no sign of it in my ntlworld account. As Tim has intimated, the most likely reason that the emails are still going to your inbox is that your rule or rules simply have not caught them.

However, personally I never use "discard" or "permanently delete"  which is the equivalent action in Outlook's rules. Instead I always send those unwanted emails to a specific folder. That means I can do a quick visual check from time to time to make sure my filter has not picked up any genuine emails before deleting them myself.

How can that happen?

Well using your "bitcoin" example. Supposing your Mum or someone in your family sends you an email with the subject "Help me with these bitcoin emails!" asking you for advice or reassurance about them.  A rule which discards any emails containing"bitcoin" in the subject will happily nuke it for you and you will never know. In my experience the most finely crafted rules have a habit of biting you somewhere painful when you least expect it.

Your other point about not receiving forum notification emails could be easily explained. You should check that you have not specified "No emails" in your forum profile. As far as I am aware, that over-rides the "email me when someone replies setting"

Just follows steps 1, 2 and 3 below.

Coenoby

emails off.png

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Message 18 of 60
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Re: VIRGIN MEDIA - AN IRRESPONSIBLE ORGANISATION - ALLOWS SPAM IN BUT NOT OUT

Filter rules only run against emails delivered to your Inbox folder.

The most likely reasons for the Discard action not occurring is that its Condition has not been matched or it has been matched but preceding or following rules matched have resulted in retention. Consider adding a Set colour flag action to help visual confirm the rule ran against an email.

VPoorEmail
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Message 19 of 60
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Re: VIRGIN MEDIA - AN IRRESPONSIBLE ORGANISATION - ALLOWS SPAM IN BUT NOT OUT

Thanks Coenoby,
If anybody sends me an email with Bitcoin in the subject, I'm happy not to receive it especially if it's from my mother-in-law. But my Mum would understand.
Whether to use 'discard' is a matter of personal preference, but please see me next post.
Also, yourself and Tim have missed a key point - which is that the discard action BUG is related to a combination of actions, and not the conditions.
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VPoorEmail
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Message 20 of 60
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Re: VIRGIN MEDIA - AN IRRESPONSIBLE ORGANISATION - ALLOWS SPAM IN BUT NOT OUT

Thank you Tim,
You are excitable, aren't you?
But, although I don't know what GREP is, I do know how to test a system. And your test is far from satisfactory.
Please repeat your test, but before discarding your inbound message, try using a 'reject With Reason' action. Then discard it. You may find that the message is received.
There may be other conditions that do, or do not block the message.
But these are half as important as the fact that a company like Virgin acts so irresponsibly that they don't even document their systems - never mind ensure that there are no bugs in them.
Perhaps discard works if it is the only action? I don't know or care. There are certainly conditions under which the Discard action doesn't work as I would expect it to (and isn't disputed by any (non-existent) documentation).
But both yourself and Virgin should be a bit more professional.

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