on 27-11-2009 08:31
Someone pointed me to an article that was in the wild and wanted to know if this is actually happening or not:
"The Register reports that Virgin Media are to begin monitoring file sharing using a deep packet inspection system, CView, provided by Deltica, a BAE subsidiary. The trial will cover about 40% of customers, although those involved will not be informed. CView's deep packet inspection is the same technology that powered Phorm's advertising system. Initially Virgin Media's implementation will focus on music sharing and will inspect packets to determine whether the content is licensed or unlicensed, based on data provided by the record industry. Virgin Media emphasised that records will not be kept on individual customers and that data on the level of copyright infringement will be aggregated and anonymised."
So, are Virgin digging into packets (I don't for one minute think that if they are they are not taking names!!)
Time to set up some encrypted tunnels!
on 27-11-2009 12:28
I am also very concerned about this. Apparently they don't intend to notify anyone whose data is being intercepted, either, which I can't believe is legal.
The technology is very similar to the Phorm technology that got BT into hot water when they started trials without customer consent.
For those who don't know what Deep Packet Inspection (DPI) is, it basically means that they peek into the messages that your computer sends whenever you do something on the internet. This could include browsing web pages and sending emails as well as the Peer2Peer traffic that they claim to be targeting.
For me, the bottom line is this: my communication is private until I choose for it not to be, regardless of whether it's telephone conversations, written letters or internet use. Royal Mail has no right to open my letters, and Virgin Media should have no right to open my IP packets.
on 27-11-2009 12:33 - last edited on 27-11-2009 12:33
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,3990
In CView, web traffic first enters a network device, or 'black box', where IP address information is discarded, Detica media accounts director Dan Klein told ZDNet UK on Thursday. The data packet is then scanned to see if it follows one of the three main file-sharing protocols — BitTorrent, Gnutella and eDonkey — said Klein.
"We don't look at anything else, because we don't have the processing power," said Klein.
If the packet does follow one of those protocols, it is opened to check whether the data inside is licensed. Detica is currently testing different music-fingerprinting products, including Shazam, Gracenote, Digimark and Audible Magic, to gauge whether the file contains licensed or unlicensed data.
on 27-11-2009 14:47
Under the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations (PECR) and the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) as well as the European ePrivacy Directive, that interception and processing of communications requires either explicit informed consent from all parties or a warrant.
It should be noted that there is no exemption in the regulations for the purpose of detecting illicit copyright infringement – and indeed in such cases where interception is being used for law enforcement, a warrant is required.
Virgin Media’s plans assume that all consumers are guilty of copyright infringement until their communications data proves otherwise – whereas the onus should be on the injured parties to provide their own evidence that an infringement has occurred.
Mr. Nicholas Bohm (General Counsel to the Foundation for Information Policy Research) has said
“If the Detica system checks the files passing through the network against a database provided by rights holders (or does this via checksums or hashes), then it seems to run into exactly the same objections as the Phorm system, namely infringements of RIPA and PECR unless the necessary consents or authorisations are obtained. I do not see how even the Phorm RIPA argument (that interception was permitted for the purpose of a service provided to the user) could apply here, since no service is being provided and no consent obtained on any basis.”
I see a FOI request has also been raised regarding this issue http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/deticacview_
From ZDNET: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,3990
"In CView, web traffic first enters a network device, or 'black box', where IP address information is discarded, Detica media accounts director Dan Klein told ZDNet UK on Thursday. The data packet is then scanned to see if it follows one of the three main file-sharing protocols — BitTorrent, Gnutella and eDonkey — said Klein.
"We don't look at anything else, because we don't have the processing power," said Klein.
If the packet does follow one of those protocols, it is opened to check whether the data inside is licensed. Detica is currently testing different music-fingerprinting products, including Shazam, Gracenote, Digimark and Audible Magic, to gauge whether the file contains licensed or unlicensed data.
Klein added that encryption of data would cause major problems for CView. "Encryption of the data packet would defeat us," he said. "We're not going to put the processing power into defeating it.""
So, only a portion of the possible problem is considered due to processing power, encryption will defeat the system entirely and anything that is spotted is going to be identified by something akin to the ever reliable Gracenote? For me that's the clearest indication yet that the piracy angle is a trojan horse to get a more general monitoring / monetising system in place.
The above article was then followed with this: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,3990
"One of the companies that supply intelligence technology to the government has criticised UK plans to monitor file-sharers.
Detica, told ZDNet UK on Thursday that government plans to force ISPs to identify unlawful file-sharers were not proportionate.
"If the government chose to go down that route, we would come out strongly against," said Detica media accounts director Dan Klein. "It's not necessary or proportionate.""
On the one hand Detica are providing the technology to intercept web traffic, and on the other hand they are saying the use of the same technology is not proportionate. Best of both wrlds there.
Finally, for now:-
RIPA makes it an offence to intercept the traffic, it does not matter whether the traffic has been "aggregated and anonymised" or not, the offence has already been committed.
on 27-11-2009 15:09 - last edited on 27-11-2009 15:10
Sololobo wrote:
On the one hand Detica are providing the technology to intercept web traffic, and on the other hand they are saying the use of the same technology is not proportionate. Best of both wrlds there.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,3990
Klein said CView, which is in its beta phase, does not enable Virgin Media or rights holders to identify individual file-sharers.
Klein told ZDNet UK that Detica had no plans to enable file-sharers to be identified through CView. "There's no way we would be interested in finding out about individual [file-sharers]," he said.
on 27-11-2009 15:45 - last edited on 27-11-2009 15:46
I have a question. Precisely what legal authority do VM and Detica plan to carry out this interception under?
Precisely which law (relevant subsection also please if relevant), statutory instrument, or warrant is being used to intercept the communications of what is reported to be 40% of the VM network in order to carry out this purported trial without VM customers consent?
EDITED for typos.
on 27-11-2009 16:01
Not the point BenMcr,
It doesn't matter if users can be identified or not, communications are being intercepted, breaching PECR, RIPA and the DPA, not to mention E-Privacy directives.
It's the illegal interception of communications without prior consent and without a warrant which is the issue.
Anything else is a red herring at this stage.
on 27-11-2009 16:54
I completely agree sololobo.
Here are a few simple questions which I hope the mods will be able to answer for us;
Do VM have prior informed consent from their customers to intercept their internet communications for the Detica trial?
Do they intend to seek such consent from their customers and those with whom their customers communicated using their VM internet connection?
on 27-11-2009 18:24
on 27-11-2009 20:10 - last edited on 27-11-2009 20:14
SilentWitness wrote:
I'm not with Virgin but with another ISP but Virgin are considering intercepting my internet traffic (even if discarded), when MY data flows through their Servers! I had enough of that with BT so DONT!
You raise an excellent point there SilentWitness. Given that the communications of VM customers shall be intercepted, will VM be seeking prior informed consent of the other party to those intercepted communications? Under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 consent is needed from both parties.
I appreciate the fact that its a friday evening, but I really do hope that VM have watched and learned the lessons from the Phorm/BT debacle and will engage with the community and customers in a manner of open transparency and with a willingness to engage in genuine discussion as to the details of what they intend to do.
If VM Haven't learned the lessons from the Phorm issue then I strongly advise VM spokespeople to get some good quality health insurance; all the fence-sitting is bound to hurt.
Just for good measure, and to keep this thread more organised, here are the prescient questions up to date:
Do VM have prior informed consent from their customers to intercept their internet communications for the Detica trial?
Do they intend to seek such consent from their customers and those with whom their customers communicate using their VM internet connection?
Precisely what legal authority do VM and Detica plan to carry out this interception under? What law, statutory instrument or warrant are they utilising to carry this out?