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Olly
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Re: Tivo tuners missing from info


@Olly wrote:


Basically you are not able to watch 'live' TV in the way you could before.

to clarify that part of my previous message I meant watch 'Live' TV and time shift on another tuner or the one you are on like you could before. You can time shift on the one remaining tuner but only if you haven't been watching a recording from My shows because the buffer empties the live TV channel it was on  when you are watching a recording. .. .

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japitts
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Message 112 of 142
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Re: Tivo tuners missing from info


@Olly wrote:

@japitts wrote:


Thanks I know that but, I am talking about having to now record random bits of live TV, not series links, instead of swapping over  tuners, you have to set a recording then go and pad it..  a right hassle when you could just tuner hop before this 'improvement'  came in and stopped that facility....  I'm also talking about general viewing 'live' TV mainly in the day or early evening not long term series..


No... you can set default padding to apply to all recorded programs - series links or single one-off recordings. The only scenario that I'm not 100% on is when you set a program to record halfway through watching it "live", the +minute buffer certainly works but I wouldn't swear to the -minute buffer.

I appreciate some people are determined to see this change as a bad thing, and others are annoyed at having a feature they liked using, removed. That's fine and they're perfectly entitled to think that and choose their pay-TV provider accordingly.

But to try to argue the TiVo isn't a PVR because of this change does seem a tad excessive to me - everyone's opinion is different of course. Ultimately if people are so glued to this feature that it is essential to their viewing, I'm sure Retentions would do them a fair deal on a V6 box if they ask **nicely** Someone earlier in the thread even complained about the BBC2 SD/HD swap and how bad and awful that is. Yet I've seen several other threads about how SD should be shut down and all channels should go HD-only. Sometimes you just can't win.


My point which you seem to be missing is why should I have to set a recording for something I am watching in the day where normally if something else clashed I'd pause it on another tuner, and hop over when I've finished with the one I am watching. basically a couple of button presses, now I will have to set to record something I'd never series link, then go to pad it and also set the other programme to record as well and pad that as the tuner empty's the buffer when you watch a recording from My Shows. Basically you are not able to watch 'live' TV in the way you could before.


 


Just to clarify one specific point that perhaps hasn't been made clear: Padding can be set to apply to all future recordings. So when you say you need to set a recording, *then* go to pad it, that's not correct. Padding can be set in the recording options and is then automatically set on all future recordings. So a program can be set to record *and* be padded in the same button press. It is not a separate action.

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Olly
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Message 113 of 142
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Re: Tivo tuners missing from info


@japitts wrote:

 


Just to clarify one specific point that perhaps hasn't been made clear: Padding can be set to apply to all future recordings. So when you say you need to set a recording, *then* go to pad it, that's not correct. Padding can be set in the recording options and is then automatically set on all future recordings. So a program can be set to record *and* be padded in the same button press. It is not a separate action.


Yes I know that and have already said I pad the series links where I know it's on a channel that isn't always good at sticking to the TV guide times. 

I was talking about possibly having to pad random recordings too on programmes that I would usually have just time shifted half an hour or so on one of the other tuners if there was a clash but would now have to record but would not be setting a series link for. ..

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japitts
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Re: Tivo tuners missing from info


@Olly wrote:

I was talking about possibly having to pad random recordings too on programmes that I would usually have just time shifted half an hour or so on one of the other tuners if there was a clash but would now have to record but would not be setting a series link for. ..


Think we might be at cross-purposes here. I've pointed out how padding can be set to apply extra recording time to all scheduled recordings, be they series links or single one-off recordings. I get how you do this for series links, but I'm trying to explain how single one-off recordings can also be extended in the same way without needing to be individually tweaked.

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Olly
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Message 115 of 142
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Re: Tivo tuners missing from info


@japitts wrote:

@Olly wrote:

I was talking about possibly having to pad random recordings too on programmes that I would usually have just time shifted half an hour or so on one of the other tuners if there was a clash but would now have to record but would not be setting a series link for. ..


Think we might be at cross-purposes here. I've pointed out how padding can be set to apply extra recording time to all scheduled recordings, be they series links or single one-off recordings. I get how you do this for series links, but I'm trying to explain how single one-off recordings can also be extended in the same way without needing to be individually tweaked.


Yeah and as I said earlier if you have a one off recording set that you would previously have time shifted on one of the tuners you now have to set to record it and then go to recordings to pad it out a bit if it needs it. I don't want to set the default recording settings to pad every show cos it then cuts off some that are one after the other as priority numbers take over so it has to be show by show basis for me anyway. . So I had already mentioned that as well as padding individual series links too if needed, and any other type of padding you can do. .Unless you were trying to tell someone else about it but just kept quoting me to tell me stuff I already know about, and had even mentioned in my posts prior to you telling me all about them  lol .

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chops
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Re: Tivo tuners missing from info

Still puzzling is what was the purpose of this update as it's made no difference to speeding up the TiVo. Instead all it's achieved is more dissatisfied customers. No communication at all about the loss of features from Virgin media - why still no email notification, letters, message on-screen or official comment forthcoming? And why is the roll-out continuing regardless ?

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Superuser
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Re: Tivo tuners missing from info


@chops wrote:

Still puzzling is what was the purpose of this update as it's made no difference to speeding up the TiVo. Instead all it's achieved is more dissatisfied customers. No communication at all about the loss of features from Virgin media - why still no email notification, letters, message on-screen or official comment forthcoming? And why is the roll-out continuing regardless ?


I guess the only official communication coming is the VM response at post 27 of this thread.

As for the continued roll-out, there's many reasons a company would roll out a change area by area - one being that the first few areas become an unofficial (and unwitting) secondary beta trial so that any unknown bugs (as opposed to intentional functionality changes) should be highlighted.

Another reason for phased roll out is that from the first few areas VM can extrapolate the estimates of the effect on their customer base:  e.g. how many people complained but stayed?  how many people complained and left?  how many people complained and then upgraded to a V6?  how many people left without complaining?  etc., etc.

From this extrapolation they can work out the overall effect on their business, and as each area gets the change then the extrapolated position can be refined/confirmed - lots of unhappy people congregating here (in a forum designed for that purpose) does not necessarily translate the majority of customers being unhappy.  From a business perspective if the number of leavers in the areas that have got the change hasn't increased, or if the number of customers upgrading & committing to new contracts has actually increased then it would be seen as "a good thing"!

The roll out's continuing because the overall customer leave/stay/upgrade data has probably shown VM that it's "not a bad thing".

Ultimately the TiVo is now 8+ years old and in that time the user interface and software functions have had a number of updates and additions (apps, Netflix, iPlayer, better resolution menus, etc.) and it is still old original hardware that is somewhat struggling under the weight.  To quote someone else (sorry, I forget who) the current TiVo box is "like a skyscraper built on the foundations of a bungalow".  Much like my old Windows XP PC that I built and loved, in the end I had to bite the bullet and accept that it was unable to cope with the latest software applications and Microsoft were no longer going to support the OS.

I would suggest the TiVo box is pretty clearly heading towards obsolescence and retirement.  VM now seems to be trying to insert workarounds/patches to keep it going for a bit longer (whether those changes are OK, misguided, or underhandedly crippling depends on your point of view!), but that is the beginning of the end in my view - it'll be removed from service within the next few years (like all other old boxes have been in the end), and it's fighting the inevitable to think otherwise.

Keith

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Buggytivo
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Re: Tivo tuners missing from info


@keithse wrote:

@chops wrote:

Still puzzling is what was the purpose of this update as it's made no difference to speeding up the TiVo. Instead all it's achieved is more dissatisfied customers. No communication at all about the loss of features from Virgin media - why still no email notification, letters, message on-screen or official comment forthcoming? And why is the roll-out continuing regardless ?


I guess the only official communication coming is the VM response at post 27 of this thread.

As for the continued roll-out, there's many reasons a company would roll out a change area by area - one being that the first few areas become an unofficial (and unwitting) secondary beta trial so that any unknown bugs (as opposed to intentional functionality changes) should be highlighted.

Another reason for phased roll out is that from the first few areas VM can extrapolate the estimates of the effect on their customer base:  e.g. how many people complained but stayed?  how many people complained and left?  how many people complained and then upgraded to a V6?  how many people left without complaining?  etc., etc.

From this extrapolation they can work out the overall effect on their business, and as each area gets the change then the extrapolated position can be refined/confirmed - lots of unhappy people congregating here (in a forum designed for that purpose) does not necessarily translate the majority of customers being unhappy.  From a business perspective if the number of leavers in the areas that have got the change hasn't increased, or if the number of customers upgrading & committing to new contracts has actually increased then it would be seen as "a good thing"!

The roll out's continuing because the overall customer leave/stay/upgrade data has probably shown VM that it's "not a bad thing".

Ultimately the TiVo is now 8+ years old and in that time the user interface and software functions have had a number of updates and additions (apps, Netflix, iPlayer, better resolution menus, etc.) and it is still old original hardware that is somewhat struggling under the weight.  To quote someone else (sorry, I forget who) the current TiVo box is "like a skyscraper built on the foundations of a bungalow".  Much like my old Windows XP PC that I built and loved, in the end I had to bite the bullet and accept that it was unable to cope with the latest software applications and Microsoft were no longer going to support the OS.

I would suggest the TiVo box is pretty clearly heading towards obsolescence and retirement.  VM now seems to be trying to insert workarounds/patches to keep it going for a bit longer (whether those changes are OK, misguided, or underhandedly crippling depends on your point of view!), but that is the beginning of the end in my view - it'll be removed from service within the next few years (like all other old boxes have been in the end), and it's fighting the inevitable to think otherwise.

Keith


Trouble for virgin is when company do rubbish thing is people tell everyone like friend neighbor colleague relatives and word spread especially now having social medias . Mud stick they say.also if they experiment of live customers, to see how degradation service get away with, then why customer services not know what to look for and report back to management. No, they say never heard of before, switch it off on and sending engineer even after all complaining. So virgin no clue how people get peed off.

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carnivalist
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Re: Tivo tuners missing from info


@keithse wrote:

@chops wrote:

Still puzzling is what was the purpose of this update as it's made no difference to speeding up the TiVo. Instead all it's achieved is more dissatisfied customers. No communication at all about the loss of features from Virgin media - why still no email notification, letters, message on-screen or official comment forthcoming? And why is the roll-out continuing regardless ?


...Another reason for phased roll out is that from the first few areas VM can extrapolate the estimates of the effect on their customer base:  e.g. how many people complained but stayed?  how many people complained and left?  how many people complained and then upgraded to a V6?  how many people left without complaining?  etc., etc.

From this extrapolation they can work out the overall effect on their business...

Keith


I don't see how they can sensibly evaluate this in its entirety like that, since people are tied into contracts. While something like this might influence some customers to leave, or be one of many reasons  - the straw that broke the camel's back  - they may only actually implement that decision up to a year down the line, long after the evaluation has taken place. For example it's certainly put me further down the road to leaving, but I can't do so for six months without incurring a loss. As things stand I probably will leave, but even if I bother to make it clear that decisions like this are part of the reason, that information will be provided far too long after the fact to have any influence.

We've already seen an increasing number of people abandoning cable in the US in favour of streaming services - my young niece and nephew and some of their friends don't even have TVs and watch online. If I were Virgin I'd pay attention to the drip effect of infuriating decisions potentially affecting customers' choices some way down the line, rather than relying on blunt data to conclude what they can and can't get away with in the here and now..

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Superuser
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Re: Tivo tuners missing from info


@carnivalist wrote:

@keithse wrote:

@chops wrote:

Still puzzling is what was the purpose of this update as it's made no difference to speeding up the TiVo. Instead all it's achieved is more dissatisfied customers. No communication at all about the loss of features from Virgin media - why still no email notification, letters, message on-screen or official comment forthcoming? And why is the roll-out continuing regardless ?


...Another reason for phased roll out is that from the first few areas VM can extrapolate the estimates of the effect on their customer base:  e.g. how many people complained but stayed?  how many people complained and left?  how many people complained and then upgraded to a V6?  how many people left without complaining?  etc., etc.

From this extrapolation they can work out the overall effect on their business...

Keith


I don't see how they can sensibly evaluate this in its entirety like that, since people are tied into contracts. While something like this might influence some customers to leave, or be one of many reasons  - the straw that broke the camel's back  - they may only actually implement that decision up to a year down the line, long after the evaluation has taken place. For example it's certainly put me further down the road to leaving, but I can't do so for six months without incurring a loss. As things stand I probably will leave, but even if I bother to make it clear that decisions like this are part of the reason, that information will be provided far too long after the fact to have any influence.

We've already seen an increasing number of people abandoning cable in the US in favour of streaming services - my young niece and nephew and some of their friends don't even have TVs and watch online. If I were Virgin I'd pay attention to the drip effect of infuriating decisions potentially affecting customers' choices some way down the line, rather than relying on blunt data to conclude what they can and can't get away with in the here and now..


Of course the data can be analysed - it's a big sample set that gets bigger for each area that gets the update and for which they have years of trends they can compare it to!  You have picked your own particular personal situation and said that it won't apply to you - the "questions" I suggested for analysing the data were only examples (which is why I put "e.g." and "etc., etc.").  The analysis still covers people tied in to their contracts, because all the comparative  customer data over the years will always cover some people who can't leave yet but will later . . . nothing is unique or new about customers being tied in to their contracts so the effect of a "delayed reaction" can be statistically accounted for.

Note also that at the other end of the scale there will be some people who upgrade to a V6 and extend their contracts because of this (and also negotiate cost reductions as part of that and so are overall happy).

Your point about the threat of streaming on their business is a valid one, but that's a whole different issue really.

Keith

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