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fixmynetplease
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Message 1 of 39
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Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

Hey

Hoping you guys can help as VM support is taking me in circles.

In the evenings (5pm-1am usually) I am experiencing ping/latency issues, specifically with League of Legends (maybe other things? but nowhere near as noticeable). My download speed and upload speed are both fine, I'm not experiencing any dropped packets and my internet speed in general is fine during these periods.

The ping goes from a stable 30-33~ to EUW servers to a solid 50-55 ping in the evenings. This wouldn't be so bad, but it feels like 100~. I've run traceroutes on the EUW servers and all of the pings are fine until they hit the ".aorta.net" [84.116.134.xx] servers where it shoots up to 50-60ms.

Steps I've taken so far:

  • Tried on a different computer on same network
  • Bought a new SuperHub3, to replace the SuperHub2 I originally had
  • Had the "levels" and "signals" checked on both the Hub2 and Hub3
  • Port forwarded the League of Legends ports on both the Hub2 and Hub3
  • Ran the SuperHub3 in modem mode

After all of these, it's still exactly the same. Same time every day and same ping differences (low 30s to 50s, every evening). It's been going on for a month+ and there is no fault reports in my area.

Any advice would be massively appreciated, it's driving me nuts. I have a feeling it might be to do with the route VM are taking to EUW servers - would that be fixed by a ISP swap? (aorta.net are virgin owned I believe)

Thank you!

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Luke_113
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Message 26 of 39
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Re: Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

Unfortunately they won't.

I'm a VM Business customer, and some of my traceroute is slightly different presumably due to location but also I go via a slight different pathing in the VM network, but have been run a couple of traceroutes as had noticed my usual ping in HoTS of 9-31ms was around 130ms last night and as you might be aware this makes the game entirely unplayable, ping graphs from 3 different places 2 of which use similar routes to hit my router show nothing at all, but the other obviously bouncing via a congested link somewhere can show the last 48 hours at roughly 5-6pm the average ping more than triples then dies off shortly after 11pm, so basically during peak time, VM have no redundancy or additional capacity to move core network traffic around. THIS is whats not good enough not even having sufficient bandwidth for your existing customers! All the mean while flyering my area to get more customers.....

Virgin Media only EVER care when its flagged up in a big way on Twitter or makes their forums explode. I 100% guarantee without some kind of decent media coverage it'll get slightly better over a couple of weeks then a few months down the line the exact same issue starts up again. My business contract is up in a few months and that can't come quick enough.

I forget which user flagged that the issue is with the Liberty Media and not directly with VM, I'm sorry but that's an apologist excuse, my question back would be why do VM sell a 'gamer' package then if you can't actually game on it for any of the useful part of the evening (to those who work), or at the weekends either? They should be actively monitoring their peering links and manually moving congestion around if its this bad, its also their NOC team not doing their job effectively or their capacity planner doing a terrible job, as part of the problem is the VM core, and part of the problem is their peering links!

Unfortunately I'm fairly certain actual VM techs are banned from their forums as they don't want techs explaining the problem to people who understand, they would much rather have them hidden behind about 6 layers of call operators first!

I don't have the link to paste in here but I'm sure you can see my post history somehow and see the business related conversation I've been involved in for about 15+ months around ping and issues on VMB/VM network, and from what I can see neither VM or VMB (as they're 2 separate companies) actually care.

Virgin have for many years held gamers in contempt for wanting to do anything more than browse facebook and read news websites, as I switched away from having 50mb about 6-7 years ago, to 2mb on BT because ping was such an issue, and its sad that I'm going to highly consider switching away again from 200mb to about 40mb.... but I just can't stand the random lag spikes that you just DO NOT GET on DSL based options because BT actually listen to their network planners properly (at least most of the time)!


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KhaosKX
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Message 2 of 39
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Re: Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

Same thing's happening with me and CSGO and I'm a new customer. It's crazy.
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Superuser
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Message 3 of 39
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Re: Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

Chuck up the tracerts we'll have a look.

 


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fixmynetplease
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Re: Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

Here is the LoL EUW Server:

Tracing route to 104.160.141.3 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 4 ms 5 ms 4 ms 192.168.0.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 18 ms 19 ms 17 ms cosh-core-2b-xe-805-0.network.virginmedia.net [80.0.142.229]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 22 ms 20 ms 29 ms brnt-ic-1-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.198]
6 18 ms 27 ms 20 ms m686-mp2.cvx1-b.lis.dial.ntli.net [62.254.42.174]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 57 ms 57 ms 56 ms nl-ams04a-ri2-ae7-0.aorta.net [84.116.134.89]
10 48 ms 49 ms 51 ms nl-ams04a-ri3-ae0-0.aorta.net [84.116.135.57]
11 57 ms 59 ms 60 ms 213.46.182.2
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 52 ms 54 ms 57 ms 104.160.141.3

Trace complete.

 

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Superuser
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Message 5 of 39
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Re: Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

I'm hitting the same servers in 36  MS. And Im a good couple of hundred miles (and an undersea cable) further away.

 

1 1 ms 2 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 12 ms 11 ms 15 ms belf-core-2a-xe-1120-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.205.69]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 22 ms 24 ms 25 ms nrth-ic-1-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.218]
7 25 ms 25 ms 24 ms m674-mp2.cvx1-b.lis.dial.ntli.net [62.254.42.162]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 31 ms 36 ms 40 ms nl-ams04a-ri3-ae8-0.aorta.net [84.116.130.97]
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 36 ms 35 ms 29 ms 104.160.141.3

But I'm hitting different aggregation to peering. So yes , its likely down to route.

If your unhappy with that result, a change of ISP may well improve it, depending on peering. Id be looking at BT infinity unlimited if you do want to change. Whats jitter doing? a 60MS ping would be playable as long as jitter is low, but as you've a HUB3 im guessing its not.

 

Balls in your court...

 


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fixmynetplease
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Message 6 of 39
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Re: Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

http://www.dslreports.com/tools/pingtest#nada gives me a "grade B" and a pingtest on the same website gave these results:

1 minute hop loss analysis from San Francisco, CA, USA tester5.ec2.dslreports.com
HopHostLOSSBestAvgWorstJitter
0      
1100.64.16.2130.0%0.32.620.32.2
2205.251.230.1210.0%0.82.620.33.2
354.240.243.420.0%1.23.820.23.6
454.240.243.330.0%0.83.220.42.8
5ae-5.r06.plalca01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net0.0%1.14.020.33.3
6ae-2.r05.plalca01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net0.0%1.54.116.22.0
7ae-15.r01.snjsca04.us.bb.gin.ntt.net0.0%1.43.620.33.8
8us-sjo01a-ri1-ge-0-0-0.aorta.net0.0%1.43.540.73.1
9us-was02a-rd2-ae17-0.aorta.net0.0%153.0158.2182.55.2
10      
11nl-ams04a-ri3-ae9-0.aorta.net0.0%157.3165.0193.97.1
12manc-ic-1-ae9-0.network.virginmedia.net0.0%165.5176.0255.512.2

 

My main concern is the aorta.net + virginmedia.net having the worst jitter? I'm not network savvy enough to fully understand the results but it seems off to me.

Is swapping ISP the only option to get different routing? I've been looking to invest in a VPN and, correct me if I'm wrong, they may have impacts on potential routing? 

Cheers

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Superuser
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Message 7 of 39
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Re: Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

 

dsltest.png

To take the metrics we have as a (very) blunt tool

  • Its not inherent latency through VM's network that's the issue, its specific to your location-
  • the inference from that is its either a local issue or an issue specific to your CMTS <given that you regard it as an issue
  • TBH the latency your seeing , taking jitter out of the equation, is fine, the decider is jitter.
  • MY  DSL report graph basically reflects a HUB3- Id expect to see a plot that shows jitter all over the place as Im plotting my HUB3. a SH2AC or SH2 ON THE SAME LINE would give a better plot (looking at jitter) than what we see.
  • Using a VPN may well improve your result (different routing)

So to summarise, whist your connection is not performing as well as a VM connection can, its ballpark.

 


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fixmynetplease
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Message 8 of 39
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Re: Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

Traceping to EUW server this morning:


Tracing route to 104.160.141.3 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 4 ms 2 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 19 ms 21 ms 17 ms cosh-core-2b-xe-805-0.network.virginmedia.net [80.0.142.229]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 22 ms 19 ms 21 ms brnt-ic-1-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.198]
6 30 ms 22 ms 39 ms m686-mp2.cvx1-b.lis.dial.ntli.net [62.254.42.174]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 33 ms 34 ms 34 ms nl-ams04a-ri2-ae7-0.aorta.net [84.116.134.89]
10 73 ms 29 ms 30 ms nl-ams04a-ri3-ae0-0.aorta.net [84.116.135.57]
11 33 ms 33 ms 33 ms 213.46.182.2
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 33 ms 31 ms 32 ms 104.160.141.3

Trace complete.

 

As you can see, the problem is my latency to the virgin owned ".aorta.net" domains in the evenings. Could this be worth escalating to Virgin engineers? I can't be the only person experiencing this...

 

My previous results (last night) for reference

Spoiler

Tracing route to 104.160.141.3 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 4 ms 5 ms 4 ms 192.168.0.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 18 ms 19 ms 17 ms cosh-core-2b-xe-805-0.network.virginmedia.net [80.0.142.229]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 22 ms 20 ms 29 ms brnt-ic-1-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.198]
6 18 ms 27 ms 20 ms m686-mp2.cvx1-b.lis.dial.ntli.net [62.254.42.174]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 57 ms 57 ms 56 ms nl-ams04a-ri2-ae7-0.aorta.net [84.116.134.89]
10 48 ms 49 ms 51 ms nl-ams04a-ri3-ae0-0.aorta.net [84.116.135.57]
11 57 ms 59 ms 60 ms 213.46.182.2
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 52 ms 54 ms 57 ms 104.160.141.3

 

Edit 1: I tried using the google DNS and openDNS and am still being routed through the ".aorta.net" locations, however I do get a response on #12

Tracing route to 104.160.141.3 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 2 ms 4 ms 2 ms 192.168.0.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 20 ms 24 ms 19 ms cosh-core-2b-xe-805-0.network.virginmedia.net [80.0.142.229]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 24 ms 46 ms 37 ms brnt-ic-1-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.198]
6 16 ms 19 ms 19 ms m686-mp2.cvx1-b.lis.dial.ntli.net [62.254.42.174]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 38 ms 41 ms 34 ms nl-ams04a-ri2-ae7-0.aorta.net [84.116.134.89]
10 63 ms 29 ms 32 ms nl-ams04a-ri3-ae0-0.aorta.net [84.116.135.57]
11 32 ms 30 ms 32 ms 213.46.182.2
12 * 35 ms 29 ms ae-100.br02.ams02.riotdirect.net [104.160.141.37]
13 30 ms 29 ms 37 ms 104.160.141.3

Trace complete.

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fixmynetplease
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Message 9 of 39
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Re: Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

More information:

I ran a traceroute directly through my SuperHub3 and got the following:


Trace Statistics :
traceroute to 104.160.141.3 (104.160.141.3), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
1 * * *
2 * * *
3 * * *
4 * * *
5 * * *
6 * * *
7 * * *
8 * * *
9 * * *
10 * * *
11 * * *
12 * * *
13 * * *
14 * * *
15 * * *
16 * * *
17 * * *
18 * * *
19 * * *
20 * * *
21 * * *
22 * * *
23 * * *
24 * * *
25 * * *
26 * * *
27 * * *
28 * * *
29 * * *
30 * * *
Trace complete.

 

Is this a problem with the SuperHub3s traceping or a potential DNS issue on my router? Not sure what to make of it!

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fixmynetplease
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Message 10 of 39
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Re: Ping issues in evenings (gaming)

Same again tonight, bolded the pings that are the issue.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tracing route to 104.160.141.3 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms 192.168.0.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 23 ms 27 ms 14 ms cosh-core-2b-xe-805-0.network.virginmedia.net [80.0.142.229]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 35 ms 17 ms 20 ms brnt-ic-1-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.198]
6 23 ms 23 ms 20 ms m686-mp2.cvx1-b.lis.dial.ntli.net [62.254.42.174]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 47 ms 49 ms 49 ms nl-ams04a-ri2-ae7-0.aorta.net [84.116.134.89]
10 56 ms 56 ms 69 ms nl-ams04a-ri3-ae0-0.aorta.net [84.116.135.57]
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 51 ms 54 ms 57 ms 104.160.141.3

Trace complete.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every morning and afternoon those servers ping 30ms~ and every evening at 5-6pm they slowly go up to 50-60ms~.

Rest of my internet is fine, just having bad latency/ping issues in evenings.

Could do with a resolution, cheers

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