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Superuser
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Message 21 of 209
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Re: How soon can we upgrade to Gigabit/Gigabit speeds over DOCSIS 3.1? #Gigaworld #ProjectLightning

yeah a lot of people sadly thing just need to flick a switch plug in an extra cable, type in a command job done..
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sonydan2k10
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Message 22 of 209
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Re: How soon can we upgrade to Gigabit/Gigabit speeds over DOCSIS 3.1? #Gigaworld #ProjectLightning

so you think they haven't tested these speed's over hear or the 3.1 Docsis well the chief engineer i now complete now's different lol.
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Message 23 of 209
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Re: How soon can we upgrade to Gigabit/Gigabit speeds over DOCSIS 3.1? #Gigaworld #ProjectLightning

I know they have, in the lab and on test network but not production or pilots. I only said that it was being trialed in Poland and Germany, I didn't say VM hadn't done anything - of course they have, both the cBR-8 and E6k support it, the cBR-8s are in fact good to go, they just need license keys which is where some of the cost is.

Doesn't really change that Liberty Global haven't selected a 3.1 gateway yet, that's part of what'll be trialed, or that there's no commercial case to push it to the UK, which is a shame.

VM are almost certainly not releasing a gigabit this year. It's not even up to VM when they start deploying. 350Mb network wide, perhaps starting 500Mb over DOCSIS 3.0 when they get to 32 bonded channels more widely, no need to go higher than that for now. There were actually plans to be at 500Mb already then BT decided to deploy G.fast in an FTTC configuration rather than using deeper fibre which made it no longer necessary.

The priorities are getting DTV to MP4 to free up downstream and, where necessary, deploying new kit to increase upstream capacity on networks that are upstream limited due to using US-style low splits. Alongside this business as usual capacity increases as adding new channels is running out of steam and upstream becoming an 'issue'.

I'm sure your Chief Engineer you now complete will be able to tell you more on the MP4 programme, network overbuild, the upcoming node split programme and deployment of R.PHY.

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Message 24 of 209
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Re: How soon can we upgrade to Gigabit/Gigabit speeds over DOCSIS 3.1? #Gigaworld #ProjectLightning


@paultechywrote:
yeah a lot of people sadly thing just need to flick a switch plug in an extra cable, type in a command job done..

In some areas it is. Unfortunately others need more work and there is the small matter of a new CPE being required as, contrary to an earlier post, the Hub 3 cannot be upgraded to support DOCSIS 3.1 an entirely new device is required.

Some areas with 750 MHz downstream networks are full and those on low splits, 5-42 MHz upstream, need work to allow for more channels to be bonded reliably.

VM can't follow the US example of cramming 64QAM 6.4 MHz carriers in right the way up the range as the nodal areas are too big, so a combination of replacement of nodes with mid-split, 5-85 MHz kit is being done alongside node splitting to provide extra capacity and improve upstream SNR.

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sonydan2k10
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Message 25 of 209
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Re: How soon can we upgrade to Gigabit/Gigabit speeds over DOCSIS 3.1? #Gigaworld #ProjectLightning

That might be the case but i have never said once this year they will deploy it i would rather them deploy ipv -6 so are xbox's one can connect through a direct ip address instead of 6 to 4 tunnelling what really do's not help and the cost come on they get enough money of there customer's to start actually upgrading the network to the 21st century to be the best you have to have the best.

I just want them to actually design a modem slash router what actually works and is up for everyday activities that be gaming to course work super 1 flawed super hub 2 flawed .super hub ac flawed and now the hub 3.0 flawed so if we get to the bottom of this till they get the equipment right there is no point going for higher speed i want the option to go modem then separate router because in the early stages of when virgin took over do you remember the black modem with the blue light when it was like that is was much better and that is my opinion.
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Charbax
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Message 26 of 209
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Re: How soon can we upgrade to Gigabit/Gigabit speeds over DOCSIS 3.1? #Gigaworld #ProjectLightning

In Denmark on Docsis 3.1:

1000mbit/s download
60mbit/s upload

for 35GBP/month via hiper.dk

1000mbit/s download
500mbit/s upload

for 89GBP/month via yousee.dk (hiper.dk cannot provide the higher upload speed than 60mbit/s yet)

I think that most of Danish citizens now have access to those speeds by the biggest telecom provider "Yousee" over their DOCSIS 3.1 enabled coax copper cable network.

I believe Switzerland is getting those types of DOCSIS 3.1 over cable network too, I think Swisscom has said they expect to have most Swiss people able to connect to Gigabit both download and Gigabit upload over COAX by now.

So to me it sounds like DOCSIS 3.1 is pretty awesome, and if other countries are getting 1000mbit/s download and upload speeds over the same old COAX cable network, then why can't the UK? And why would Virgin Media be talking about #Gigaworld if they'd not actually be doing it?

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Message 27 of 209
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Re: How soon can we upgrade to Gigabit/Gigabit speeds over DOCSIS 3.1? #Gigaworld #ProjectLightning

I think there's some confusion here. Liberty Global have announced nothing about plans for any DOCSIS 3.1 rollout as a commercial product in Switzerland let alone full duplex DOCSIS.

There is no full duplex DOCSIS equipment available to deliver a production service, and no modems to transmit and receive the signals.

Swisscom is not offering a gigabit over DOCSIS 3.1, they offer it over FTTP, with 500/100 as an alternative for those on copper G.fast. UPC Switzerland, formerly Cablecom if memory serves, has a 500Mb down, 50Mb up product served via DOCSIS 3.0. They are likely to be earlier than us to the 3.1 game to compete with Swisscom's gigabit product.

Denmark's cable company isn't part of the same group VM's is, so Gigaworld irrelevant to what they are doing. They are an early adopter using Huawei equipment in order to compete with all that lovely subsidised fibre to the premises there.

I hope I made it clear that VM could switch DOCSIS 3.1 on in my area, and others, tomorrow if they had the desire and the business case. They don't. There is no value to them in deploying a gigabit when the only scale competition maxes out at 300Mb. Had BT offered G.fast at 500Mb from nodes placed closer to homes VM would be at 500Mb down, 50Mb up right now. Not that long ago VM were expecting to be at 500/50 by now.

Virgin were expecting BT to be more aggressive and to force them to move to higher speeds more quickly than they have had to and it hasn't happened.

That's about ti. When the market pushes them to go higher they will. There is no rush and no deadline.

Gigaworld was a publicity stunt. An annoying one given the lack of signs of LGI companies offering a gigabit service. I, and others on business services, would probably be the first people to get a pop at it. I say that, though, I was told we'd get speed increases first but am on 200Mb still while residential customers can have 300Mb here so don't take that as gospel. Supposed to get upload increases early too. Smiley Sad

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Charbax
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Message 28 of 209
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Re: How soon can we upgrade to Gigabit/Gigabit speeds over DOCSIS 3.1? #Gigaworld #ProjectLightning

OK would be good of VM if they'd get to 500/50, or at least any upload speed faster than the current 20.

I just think that otherwise the VM advertising campaigns like the one with Usain Bolt

is misleading. VM's upload speed isn't faster, it's pretty much just the same as on BT/Sky.

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Message 29 of 209
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Re: How soon can we upgrade to Gigabit/Gigabit speeds over DOCSIS 3.1? #Gigaworld #ProjectLightning

I genuinely can't find anyone who knows what the problem is with bonding 4 upstream channels across the network, it just isn't happening. Until that happens going above 20Mb is a bad idea because, as mentioned before, VM's nodes are too large. Too many customers sharing the same bandwidth. VM need to get 4 upstreams everywhere and split a bunch of nodes before they can offer it across the network.

They could, certainly, activate a 350/35 tier in some areas though, and no reason why they couldn't run a staggered rollout nationwide much as they did with the 10:1 upstream programme way back when.

Meanwhile in Ireland, a network that was mostly pretty decrepit stuff Liberty purchased from ntl and rebuilt they've things like the below, with room for another couple of channels 5120 ksym/s channels without too much stress. Handy when offering 360/36 to residential and 400/40 to business.

5-upsteam.PNG

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Message 30 of 209
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Re: How soon can we upgrade to Gigabit/Gigabit speeds over DOCSIS 3.1? #Gigaworld #ProjectLightning

While you're wondering about what might be here's what Comhem in Sweden offer over DOCSIS 3.0 - https://www.comhem.se/bredband/bredband-1000

This is what you have to produce when you're competing with various municipal and private point to point networks offering a symmetrical gigabit - and the lack of said competition in the UK is why VM / Liberty Global are so relatively relaxed about it.

We can all stomp and say that we want a gigabit but when we've no options to match VM's existing speeds, let alone to move to a gigabit, where's the motivation for them? People on 200 / 300 / 350Mb cable who want a gigabit aren't especially likely to move to maximum 80Mb VDSL. G.fast isn't really going to help either - VM are just moving the whole country to 350Mb and job done being faster. Most of the premises passed by G.fast won't be able to get the full 300Mb anyway due to distance from the cabinet.

Upload speeds... you're talking to the guy who was complaining about these back in 2010 and kicked off a blog looking at the technical reasons why they weren't higher. The technical reasons are actually much the same now, except there's no clear reason why they haven't been resolved on most areas as the costs would be minimal - moving this area from 2 to 4 upstream bonding was, literally, done on a keyboard and that was it.

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