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Very difficult installation potential issues

mda99das
Up to speed

I am a new VM customer, install being done in 1 months time due to giving sky notice period.

Going for  1GB connection. The package is TV and broadband 360 with 2 additional boxes. Landline as well.

The issue is that at no point was I made aware that they would need co-ax cables for the 2 boxes.I thought it would be like my SKY Q where the miniboxes just work from Ethernet.

In the loft there is a distribution point where CAT6 ethernet and coax is fed into each room. This was put in when we refurbished the house to future proof it, and having a wired connection when we had SKY Q beats wireless hands down!

I want the engineer to install the router in the loft. From there 1 ethernet cable will plug in and go to the main box in the lounge on the ground floor using the pre existing wiring. VM will install a splitter on the coax)  that gives 4 feeds (as far as I am aware) one will go to the router, the other 3 will use the existing coax and go to the lounge and the 2 bedrooms that I want the boxes to be placed in.

Question : Shall I plug my netgear 16 port gigabit router into the VM router and the 3 ethernet connections for the boxes into the netgear. Or shall I plug the 3 boxes directly into the VM router and use the last port for the netgear?

I am moving the landline to virgin, but the master BT socket wiring is in the basement. 

Looking at pictures of the router I can see 2 x RJ11.

Question, does the VM router split the phone service itself? If so then I will need to run a phone cable down from the loft (there is a black drainpipe) and through an airbrick that leads into the basement. Its then simply a case of taking out the BT(sky) cable which has probably been there since 1970 and wiring the VM in, so that all the landlines now have service. If the VOIP is done at the cabinet then the wire would need to be split at ground level, with co-ax going to the loft and the 2 pair twisted wire going to the basement.

The house has been recently refurbished and there isn't a need for any drilling of the brickwork. There is an access panel just under the roof and the wire can be slid in where the wiring for the CCTV cameras are.

I have a pre installation visit booked, but just wanted to know if I am asking too much? I have spent a lot of time and effort refurbishing the house, and don't want holes drilled through walls for wiring.

I can't be the first one to have such a challenging request?

Appreciate any thoughts or comments. Thank you.

17 REPLIES 17

Andrew-G
Alessandro Volta

You're expecting John Lewis service, and I'm afraid VM is setup to offer pound shop service, so you may want to condition your expectations accordingly.  I'd also counsel against giving Sky notice, because VM's installation process is sometimes....erm.....rubbish, with delays of many months not unheard of.

Although I do see what it is you are trying to achieve here, I do feel it best to temper expectations and prepare for a bit of a disappointment.

Firstly, yes as @Andrew-G advises, be very wary of cancelling your existing Sky contract, lest you find yourself without anything for a while - in fact if you intent to keep the same telephone number and port it to VM, then you absolutely MUST NOT give notice to Sky. Any pending cancellation or cease orders against the line will 100% stop the port from happening - this is a OFCOM procedure nothing to do with VM or Sky.

Secondly, do you happen to live in a bungalow? Odd question but the VM installers will not do any work above first floor level - and sometimes even then they can take some persuading! Anything higher requires a special 'working at heights' trained installer. It is more than likely that they will refuse point-blank to run the coax up to the loft.

The pre-install team come first and run the coax cable from the street cabinet or the 'tee' outside your house to a box which they will attach to the outside front wall, this cable should be protected by trunking and properly buried under the garden, although there have been some quite spectacular variations on this reported on here. Normally when the installer comes, they drill a hole through the outside wall, run coax in and then to wherever you want it - drilling through internal walls or running the cable along the skirting boards as appropriate. In your case, you would be asking for a cable to be run from this 'omnibox' up the outside of the house and into the loft, and this is where I fear, you will get a 'sorry but no can do' response!

But let's imagine that we get past that and a coax cable gets up into the loft a connected to a Hub4 - connect your switch to one of the ports on it and hence you will have ethernet connectivity to the various rooms - so far so good. What provision have you made for WiFi throughout the house? The WiFi provision on the VM hubs is, well, less than stellar, I would say that the chances of you getting any reasonable WiFi other than in the room directly below where the hub is, is probably slim to none. Do you already have WiFi access points connected via ethernet throughout the house? VM will offer you their 'pods' which are WiFi extenders and you will be entitled to three of these for no extra cost on the 1 Gbit tier. These may well work OK for you, failing that you will need to make your own alternative arrangements.

Now moving on the TV provision, yes each of the boxes needs a separate coax feed as well as a network connection (which can be ethernet (best) or WiFi (often sub-par at best)). The coax would-be split into four at a convenient point, presumably up in the loft, and there may be a need for a powered splitter to be fitted if the signal strength is a bit low. One of these goes into the hub as mentioned above and the others need to be run to which ever rooms you want the TVs in. Now you say there is already coax between the loft and the rooms - but is it suitable for cable TV distribution? Satellite-grade coax, might look like cable coax, but doesn't necessarily have the right electrical characteristics, neither might the sockets in the various rooms.

Now on this point I can see four possible outcomes;

a) The installer just takes a chance and uses the cables, on the grounds that he gets away early. If it isn't suitable, then he'll be long gone before you notice the miserable experience you'll have.

b) The installer makes measurements, tests the cable and decides that it is all OK and uses it - all good. This is actually very unlikely to happen.

c) The installer tests the cable, realises that the signals will be a bit borderline, but uses them anyway, he gets away early, it all appears to work at first while he's there and when it all falls apart later then that's your problem guv!

d) And this is by far the most likely, the installer takes one look at the existing coax, refuses to even touch it and starts to drill holes through the ceilings and walls to run the 'proper' coax!

And lastly the phone, these now have to connect directly to the hub, this is not negotiable. I expect the installer would connect a phone to the hub check it is working and then clear off. You'll either have to go up into the loft to make a phone call or do exactly as you suggested and run your own twisted pair cable between the hub and wherever your existing socket is and connect it up.

Now despite appearances, I'm really not trying to put you off signing up with VM, just pointing out that this is likely to be very, very far from plain sailing.

 

Andrew-G
Alessandro Volta

And just to add the icing to the sunken sponge cake of disappointment, I'd also point out that VM drilling and fixing is normally done to the most elementary standards, using a big cordless SDS drill that can easily make enormous exit craters when drilling through masonry walls, and cables crudely run with cable clips across walls, the top of skirting boards.   Sounds like you're rather house proud, and normal VM installations are not done to the standards you might be expecting.  VM technicians have their time scheduled by VM's systems, programmed with ropey assumptions, and maybe you'll get lucky, but possibly they won't be allotted anywhere near the time to do a good job even if you get a technician who has the experience, skills, tools and attitude to want to do a good job.  Here's a cracking example of quality VM workmanship.

Some people have been able to agree with pre-installation teams to get hold of necessary lengths of VM supplied cable-grade coax, and do the internal routing and fixing themselves, and pre-drilling their external wall.  This would perhaps be your best hope.

Thanks for replying. I had no idea that VM keep cancelling installs etc. As for the wireless I have a Draytek Viggor wireless router which has SIM card slot in case of failure . Sky wireless is slow but this is perfect. As the  draytek router has its DHCP turned off the wireless doesn’t need to be reprogrammed in the devices. 
The cabling that I have for coax is copper rather than aluminium and is very stiff, and there is a booster in the loft there as well.

I have made up my mind if VM can’t do the install the way I need it, or it’s not possible I will go back to sky. 

 

 

-tony-
Alessandro Volta

@mda99das wrote:

Thanks for replying. I had no idea that VM keep cancelling installs etc. As for the wireless I have a Draytek Viggor wireless router which has SIM card slot in case of failure . Sky wireless is slow but this is perfect. As the  draytek router has its DHCP turned off the wireless doesn’t need to be reprogrammed in the devices. 
The cabling that I have for coax is copper rather than aluminium and is very stiff, and there is a booster in the loft there as well.

I have made up my mind if VM can’t do the install the way I need it, or it’s not possible I will go back to sky. 

 

 


how simple do you want it - what you want is not going to happen - yes keep the order in but do not under any circumstances cancel Sky - if and thats a GIANT if VM do install you as you want then cancel sky - its more than worth the months crossover payment 

____________________

Tony.
Sacked VIP

Thank you Tony, the pre install visit is booked next week so will have clarity on the issue, as part of the package there was an o2 SIM card but I asked them to start that when my contract starts on 9th July when the main install is being done. For some reason they are sending it out as per communication from o2. Technically could you just cancel the 02 sim, it’s £20 a month? On another note I could install myself or pay privately to have it done my way. Yes I am house proud and having spent 6 months living on a “building site” while the house works were taking place I don’t see why I should have that spoilt by sloppy wiring / installation. I can’t be the first person that has asked for this. The big plus is the fast internet. I don’t have decent 5G and BT have not got fibre to the premises yet. My sky subscription was up and virgin made a better offer despite 22 years with sky!

Unfortunately @mda99das you can’t do this yourself or get a third party to do it, even if you managed to get some of the proper grade cable and the proper connectors and wall sockets and had the existing coax runs ripped out and replaced, then there is still a likelihood of the VM installer refusing to touch it on the grounds that it wasn’t put in by them and they can’t guarantee that it’ll work properly or that it won’t cause problems for your neighbours - unlike satellite your connection is linked back to everyone else’s at the street cabinet and an incorrect run of cable or bad connection can cause issues for them. I believe one of my fellow VIPs @jbrennand has a tale about this very thing happening to him and getting a knock on the door!

Also the booster, you have, is is suitable for the frequencies used here, a TV aerial booster won’t work, entirely different thing.

I can’t help wondering if you might be better off, if you can get them to run the coax to the loft, maybe you put in a draw string first, pull the cable up and then you promise to properly fix it in place later, to abandon the VM  TV provision and stick with catch-up services which only need a box with internet connectivity instead.

@mda99das Technically could you just cancel the 02 sim, it’s £20 a month?

Yes, as VMO2 have structured things, the two contracts are legally separate, and cancelling one doesn't cancel the other, although you may lose some VM benefits from the Volt offer.  The 14 day cooling off rights start from O2 when your SIM gets delivered/activated, with VM it is when the installation actually takes place.  This means that with a delayed VM install you could end up outside the O2 cooling off window before VM have got anywhere near your house, and O2 will insist you're contracted for 18 months if you then needed/wanted to drop the O2 SIM.  I'm not sure that would stand up to scrutiny at adjudication, because you agreed the contract as a bundle, but it has the potential to create confusion and hassle.

@jem101 that was a very good suggestion to place a draw string. In Fact today I was going to go into the loft to check and make it as easy as possible for the engineer, and will go into the basement as well with draw strings. The more I can do to help the team, I feel I will get a better result. Got loads of biscuits and cakes and snacks for the engineers to get them on side with decent tea and coffee!