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ahepworth
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Upgrade to Hub3 - Same IP

I've been contacted by VM asking to send me an upgrade to the V6 box, and the new SuperHub3. I didn't want either of them (have no need because don't have V+ box under the telly, and the Hub is fine in modem mode at 100Mb), but they insisted and sent them last Monday.

I wasn't planning on installing them because I rely upon the IP lease being the same to be able to access my work infrastructure (whilst my IP isn't static, it hasn't changed in 5 years).

Unfortunately, VM sent me a text this morning at 9:09 on a Saturday when I'm not home saying "Okay - let's get cracking! We've sent the signal to your home & everything's ready for you, so you can set up your kit. Reply HELP if you get stuck".

That appears to have disabled my current installation, and that now means my family is without internet connection until I return home late on Sunday.

That is unacceptable !

Unfortunately, I'll also be unable to work on Monday morning if the IP address changes. How can I ensure the same IP is returned to the new router?

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Adduxi
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Re: Upgrade to Hub3 - Same IP


@ahepworth wrote:

 

<snip>

Unfortunately, I'll also be unable to work on Monday morning if the IP address changes. How can I ensure the same IP is returned to the new router?


You can't.  AFAIK, the IP address will change with the new MAC address of the Hub 3.

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legacy1
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Re: Upgrade to Hub3 - Same IP

With the hub in modem mode and your own router its been know that you keep your same WAN IP but thats not for sure.

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Roger_Gooner
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Re: Upgrade to Hub3 - Same IP

Why would you put your family in this position by relying on an ISP not changing the IP address? Hardly any other homeowner does this.

--
Hub 3.0, TP-Link Archer C8, TP-Link TL-SG1008D 8-port gigabit switch, V6
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Superuser
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Re: Upgrade to Hub3 - Same IP

ring here 

dial 150 or 0345 454 1111 and follow the prompts to - 'thinking of leaving us' - then "technical issues" - dont worry about that they do much more - open 8am -10pm 7 days a week - should take you to a UK call centre

tell them you want your old hub reactivated - be pleasant and firm - if the agent wont do it hang up and try again witha different agent - the prompts above should get you to the UK - again if not hang up and try again

hopefully that will get you sorted

 

____________________

Tony
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ahepworth
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Re: Upgrade to Hub3 - Same IP

@ Roger_Gooner

Thank you for the (pretty pointless) post. Not very helpful is it?

...but given you did ask a question, I'm happy to respond...

I haven't "put my family" in this position - as I said in the post it's my work access that will be affected, not that of my family, and I can solve that hassle in a few hours on Monday. On the balance of probability and a lease time of over 8 hours, I've never had the address change in over 5 years of use - something useful when the supplier doesn't offer the option of static IP on residential accounts.

Could you please point me to the data that confirms your statement that "hardly any other homeowner does this" because I'm guessing that's just bulls**t and very few ISP actually survey their customers to know how many of them rely on the fact that the IP changes very rarely and is hence sufficiently static to allow them to access work locations that demand additional firewall restrictions?

To ensure this post may contain some value however, I can confirm that after swapping the router for Hub3 (when it picked up a different dynamic IP) and a second reboot into modem mode - it has actually given me back the original WAN IP I've had for 5+ years, so that was either an amazing fluke, or else Modem mode has an IP pool that is somehow semi-static to the customer account. Either way it is resolved, so thank you to those who posted helpful comment.

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Superuser
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Re: Upgrade to Hub3 - Same IP


@ahepworth wrote:

@ Roger_Gooner

Thank you for the (pretty pointless) post. Not very helpful is it?

...but given you did ask a question, I'm happy to respond...

I haven't "put my family" in this position - as I said in the post it's my work access that will be affected, not that of my family, and I can solve that hassle in a few hours on Monday. On the balance of probability and a lease time of over 8 hours, I've never had the address change in over 5 years of use - something useful when the supplier doesn't offer the option of static IP on residential accounts.

Could you please point me to the data that confirms your statement that "hardly any other homeowner does this" because I'm guessing that's just bulls**t and very few ISP actually survey their customers to know how many of them rely on the fact that the IP changes very rarely and is hence sufficiently static to allow them to access work locations that demand additional firewall restrictions?

To ensure this post may contain some value however, I can confirm that after swapping the router for Hub3 (when it picked up a different dynamic IP) and a second reboot into modem mode - it has actually given me back the original WAN IP I've had for 5+ years, so that was either an amazing fluke, or else Modem mode has an IP pool that is somehow semi-static to the customer account. Either way it is resolved, so thank you to those who posted helpful comment.


WAN IP leases are tied to MAC address of the ROUTER if your HUB is in modem mode. Changing a SHUB2 in modem mode to a HUB3 in modem mode will usually return the same IP, provided its still in the pool.

So the behaviour is expected.

 


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VMCopperUser
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Re: Upgrade to Hub3 - Same IP

I am with others on this... Start it up without connecting it to the coax, put it in Modem mode, then swap it out.

No one expects virgin to give you the same IP all the time, their Business accounts may allow this an an option. 

You didn't go into detail of why  you need the same IP, but if it's for connecting back to your home then Google "Dynamic DNS" and you will find your solution to a changing IP.

I know people who work remotely from home for banks and a couple who have to sign the official secrets act to do their work, none of them seem to have issues with the IP moving every so often.

----
I do not work for VM, but I would. It is just a Job.

I would also make websites for them, because the job never seems to require the website to work.
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Superuser
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Message 9 of 12
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Re: Upgrade to Hub3 - Same IP

Just to clarify - the reason you got your old IP back when putting the hub 3 in modem mode, is because DHCP relies on the MAC address of the ROUTER that's requesting an IP.

Any hub consists of a number of elements.

  • Modem
  • WAN interface
  • LAN Interface
  • WLAN interface (which is bridged into the LAN)

Each element has it's own MAC address (in fact in routers with 2.4G and 5G, they have two wireless MACs one for each band.

So in normal mode it's the WAN interface mac of the hub that's used by the DHCP server.  While in modem mode it's the WAN interface MAC of the attached router instead.

Furthermore Virgin Media's lease times are around 7 days, so provided it wasn't nearing the end of the lease (and even then you still have about a days leeway, as the DHCP client in the router normally gets an extension to the lease at around 5 1/2 days into the current lease), putting the hub into modem mode and attaching your router means that it is just granted the existing lease in the servers DHCP table.

Indeed while DHCP addresses CAN change, there are a number of elements in the design of DHCP to ensure that where possible that they don't.

However most employers SHOULD take into account that although IP addresses allocated by some ISP's can be very sticky, they are still subject to change without warning.  System outages and/or works on the network can result in IP addresses being shuffled around from time to time.  So an employer requiring someone to keep the same IP when connecting from home is not, IMHO a reasonable request.

That said - I am glad that putting your Hub 3 into modem mode has given you the outcome you wanted.

Tim

________________________________________


Only use Helpful answer if your problems been solved.

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ahepworth
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Re: Upgrade to Hub3 - Same IP


@ravenstar68 wrote:

 

[snip] 

However most employers SHOULD take into account that although IP addresses allocated by some ISP's can be very sticky, they are still subject to change without warning.  System outages and/or works on the network can result in IP addresses being shuffled around from time to time.  So an employer requiring someone to keep the same IP when connecting from home is not, IMHO a reasonable request.

That said - I am glad that putting your Hub 3 into modem mode has given you the outcome you wanted.

Tim


Thanks Tim.

"Sticky" is absolutely fine - for my work, we host multiple client infrastructures in our datacentres, so our firewalls are understandably tight about who can connect into the DMZ, and the source of that traffic - despite layers of MFA security. Changing my registered IP in the various systems wouldn't have been the end of the world, but it would have stopped me working from home for a day or so. I do also use DDNS (@VMCopperUser) but that doesn't help me traverse our firewalls that want to know a fixed IP.

I understand how modem mode works now too - I had presumed the Hub still exposed a MAC for the modem and acted as a pass-through proxy, but if it's based upon my router behind the modem, then that's good advice for when I need to upgrade to upgrade that piece of kit, but given it's supposed to be good for 500Mbps, I should be good for a while yet.

The annoyance was Virgin Media sending the "kill" signal to my old SH2 without any warning, and without my permission and before I'd managed to read-up on how to retain my IP that was somewhat annoying. It was compounded by happening on a weekend when I wasn't at home (sod's law), but fortunately I have a tech-savvy teenager who managed to sort out with a bit of guidance over the phone.

Thanks again.

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