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Dagger2
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Message 721 of 875
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

Other LG-owned ISPs that have done v6 do it by adding a new v6+DS-lite platform, and then putting new customers only on it. If VM go the same route, then we should expect to see about 2000 new v6 users per day (at 5 million customers and a 15% churn rate). We aren't seeing anything like that at the moment.

Will they go the same route? I don't think we'll see them switch existing customers to CGNAT, and since they'll likely be tying CGNAT and v6 together (again based on every other LG-owned ISP in other countries doing exactly that) I think that probably means they'll be doing the new-customers-only thing too. So we won't see any big jumps as PoPs go online because the existing customers on those PoPs would need to cancel and sign up again first.

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VMCopperUser
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Message 722 of 875
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

Hard to see that their configuration profiles would allow for a split like that.  It would seem more logical, but this is VM we have here, Logical would have been to roll out a non-nat solution years ago and then tackle Ipv4 exhaustion when it happens.

I am thinking we'll see it more along the lines of switch everyone over to CGNat, then (as mentioned) sell non-nat as a service add-on.

 

----
I do not work for VM, but I would. It is just a Job.
Most things I say I make up and sometimes it's useful, don't be mean if it's wrong.
I would also make websites for them, because the job never seems to require the website to work.
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Superuser
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Message 723 of 875
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

I don't think they'll sell it as a service add on.

What others seem to have done e.g. UPS (Now Virgin Media Ireland) and Ziggo, is moved everyone onto IPv6 and then offered those that ask rollbacks to IPv4.

I can see that happening here as well.

Tim

 

________________________________________


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Morgaine
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Message 724 of 875
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

It's a pity that we don't know for sure (officially) which approach Liberty Global used in other jurisdictions.  It's reasonable to assume that whatever they did elsewhere they'll do in the UK too.

Lacking that information, I think I'll cast my guess with @ravenstar68, because the *FAT* long tail of IPv4 that would result if IPv6 were given automatically only to new customers makes no sense to me. The fat long tail would have the following disadvantages:

• By needing to keep all of their existing IPv4 resources around, it wouldn't let Virgin move rapidly to IPv6-only internal infrastructure. That would be very bad for them since VM would lose the large savings in cost, manpower, equipment and reduced headache / security risk which provide most of the corporate incentive for ISPs to move fast to IPv6-only internally.

• It wouldn't give Virgin any information about how many IPv4 blocks can be freed up for selling off while the market price of IPv4 addresses is high. The loss of that easy one-off windfall does not seem very strategic, and for a profit-motivated company, unlikely.

• It would waste the high degree of compatibility and operational transparency of the two protocols, which for most common applications are completely interchangeable and work fine side by side. Most users wouldn't notice the change at all, giving Virgin a quick win.  Losing that low-hanging fruit would delay their IPv6 transition plans and burden them with high costs for a long period, a very high price to pay.

Transitioning to IPv6 with a long IPv6 tail is a very bad package deal, so I expect Virgin / Liberty Global to switch everyone over at once, and then roll back to native IPv4 (without IPv6) for the relatively few who want it. Trickling out IPv6 is such a bad package deal that it's never even mentioned as an IPv6 deployment M.O. --- the normal use of "long tail" is to refer to the long tail of legacy IPv4, slowly fading away into the sunset as IPv4-only equipment dies or is modernized.

PS. "IPv4-as-a-Service" (in the sense of an extra revenue stream for ISPs) is only ever mooted as a long-term goal, an option that becomes viable only after IPv4 usage has become niche. It's unlikely to affect the decision process for present-day ISPs when considering how best to transition to an IPv6 world, because a niche IPv4 is beyond the visible horizon.

Morgaine.

"If it only does IPv4, it is broken." -- George Michaelson, APNIC.
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andrewducker
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Message 725 of 875
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

I wonder if older routers will work with it.

 

And what percentage of customers are on the latest one.

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Morgaine
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Message 726 of 875
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

@andrewducker writes:

I wonder if older routers will work with it.

 

That'll depend on how old the equipment is, but Virgin is probably well positioned in that respect by now, because over the last few years they have imposed on customers a mandatory free CPE upgrade with no alternative offered other than to leave VM.  I was caught up in this mass upgrade so I'm describing this first-hand.

The fact that it was a free upgrade says a lot about how important the mass upgrade was to Virgin.  The forced upgrade wasn't necessarily driven by the need to support IPv6 of course, as new equipment allows them to offer new services to customers with upgraded CPEs.  Nevertheless, being compatible with their IPv6 plans was almost certainly a side effect of the upgrades.

Morgaine.

"If it only does IPv4, it is broken." -- George Michaelson, APNIC.
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andrewducker
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Message 727 of 875
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

Makes sense. I'm on A Superhub 2,which is presumably therefore compatible.

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Superuser
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Message 728 of 875
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

I'm (obviously) on IPV4, but 40 miles from me someone with the same kit is on IPV6. IPV4 is offered as an option

I would assume thats the model VM will use, as you know, they already are as LG

 

 

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VMCopperUser
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Message 729 of 875
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media


@Morgaine wrote:

@andrewducker writes:

I wonder if older routers will work with it.

 

That'll depend on how old the equipment is, but Virgin is probably well positioned in that respect by now, because over the last few years they have imposed on customers a mandatory free CPE upgrade with no alternative offered other than to leave VM.  I was caught up in this mass upgrade so I'm describing this first-hand.

The fact that it was a free upgrade says a lot about how important the mass upgrade was to Virgin.  The forced upgrade wasn't necessarily driven by the need to support IPv6 of course, as new equipment allows them to offer new services to customers with upgraded CPEs.  Nevertheless, being compatible with their IPv6 plans was almost certainly a side effect of the upgrades.

Morgaine.


You can reject some of their upgrades.  For instance, I rejected the SH3 three times now.  My 2ac seemed to be dying before I went away in December, but since I have returned it all seems okay  (must have not been the modem).

I would have thought that the ability to brag with the slightly better AC WiFi AND the "Virgin Media" public WiFi is the main reason they want to push the newer gear out.  The larger channel groups that can be bonded should help with utilization too I would think.

Users with older routers shouldn't worry too much at this stage I don't think.  By the time IPv6 deployment happens you will have gone through two more sets of routers ;P.

 

----
I do not work for VM, but I would. It is just a Job.
Most things I say I make up and sometimes it's useful, don't be mean if it's wrong.
I would also make websites for them, because the job never seems to require the website to work.
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louis-m
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Message 730 of 875
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Re: IPv6 support on Virgin media

IPv6 support on Virgin media

Does anyone know whether (and if so when) Virgin plan to implement IPv6 on its network?

As mentioned..... post almost 9 years ago!

Now we're just about to hit the 18000 mark on the IPv6 counter in this thread which roughly equates to about 5.610 addresses per day since this thread was started! OMG, I need to get a life and go and watch some paint dry!

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