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Abdallah
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Message 21 of 34
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Re: Very slow unreliable broadband 2019 (SH3)

Thanks guys. The advice is noted.

i fully understand, generally, top speeds are not possible over Wi-Fi. I wasn’t expecting this. In the same token, I wasn’t expecting sub 5-10mbs either.

my laptop is used predominantly for work and as such, I really have no need for 5ghz on that.

the tv gets used heavily! We only stream. Terrestrial or satellite tv gets viewed for 1-2 hrs a year.

phone and iPad I stream music and video. I also play a game which for some reason my friends and I take far too seriously (golf clash). As with many games, you play online vs others. I was experiencing extremely poor lag that I would have to revert to my 4g just to play that. I used to game quite hard. I am sure I would be experiencing even more issues and get even more frustrated.

i did a free trial of tidal which is a lossless music streaming service. I may as well have been on 50k dial up man. Stuttering super bad if skipping tracks. Have to buffer the song up for 10-15 seconds like old school YouTube. Ridiculous.

comments about Wi-Fi traffic is noted. I neglected to mention that I had downloaded probably 5 apps in total that analyse channels, traffic etc. I found out that channel 11 on 2.4 is best.

i live on the second and third (top) floors of a 1970s block of only 17 apartments. Edge to edge, my apartment is probably 30m in length, 14m wide. So total area is 2,200 sqft excluding balcony. I rarely see more than 4 SSID at any one time. The SH3 is at the center of the top floor. The master powerlink is connected via Ethernet. The slave powerlink is on the second floor by the main TV. This also (thankfully) emits WI-FI. I believe this is covering the entire flat on its own. 

 

Conversely, my office is swamped with Wi-Fi  from other offices neighbouring above and below me. All devices including the laser printer is connected over Wi-Fi. Never had a problem unless line goes down which happens about once every three years.

Why do other esteemed customers of VM and on this very forum opt for second router and run SH3 on modem mode?

 

whether I use 365mbs or not really is not the issue here. The issue is I have been provided not once, but twice, with flawed hardware from my provider which would never allow me to achieve advertised speeds. Now that you and I have invested in a secondary device does the service seem to work as expected.

 

Whats deep is, and no one seems to want to comment on this, is this...

 

the last engineer that came out said there was nothing wrong with anything. He did a speed test on his (I’m guessing) work phone, and it hit 350mbs! I couldn’t believe my eyes. So I did it on my phone. 350mbs on wifi. I head over to the fatherst point in the apartment and again, 350mbs. On the same iPhone 7 Plus. 

I was so happy I even called the Mrs at work. Within 2 hrs dude, 2 hrs, back to sub 10mbs. Every “trick in the book” got me to about 70 mbs standing by the SH3.

 

In summary, the Wi-Fi is extremely poor without secondary devices. How can anyone argue this?

how can secondary devices work better?  Does TP-Link possess some sort of future wizardry that the second biggest goddamn service provider in the 5th richest country on earth can’t source or procure or do a deal with?

You think they have this problem in Singapore, Sweden or South Korea? Their speeds are almost terabyte a second. You think they ever used SH3?

so in conclusion, physics don’t change. Only methods of profiteering while shivving your customers. Cheap hardware from a cheap company that used to be the best and got complacent. Now all I hear is complaints and poor service.

 

There is no explanation for the above other than firmware might be downloading corrupt version. I am sure someone here will say that that is impossible.

 

if everyone complained rather than take it up the backside and buy remedial hardware, perhaps VM will get the real picture. 

 

Yes some reading this may say that I am being too finicky and particular. I’m a firm believer in you get what you pay for. I’m on the best service they have. I expect their best. I, nor should anyone, take anything less.

 

just found this....

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/virgin-media-super-hub-3

 

Enjoy. Calling VM now. 

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DreamOfCheese
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Message 22 of 34
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Re: Very slow unreliable broadband 2019 (SH3)

Singapore, Sweden, and South Korea most certainly do not have speeds up to a terabyte per second, that'd be 8tbps (or 8000gbps), in Singapore you can get 10gbps from a residential provider but most people will only go as high as 1gbps.

Having contacts with people in Singapore and Sweden I can safely say their ISPs do not expect you to use their provided gear to achieve the speeds of their 1gbps or above packages over wifi. In the case of Singapore I don't think the ISP even provides wireless capable gear, just an optical termination point for you to hook into.

 

EDIT:

Regarding getting what you pay for, you're paying for the connection, they're providing the connection. They also provide the Hub in with the package at no additional cost for the majority of consumers to use as their router, the ones who are happy with the performance it gives. With that out the way (the fact you're not paying for the Hub, just the connection) if you're such a firm believe in getting what you pay for, then pay for a better router.

There is no conspiracy with the Hub only working properly when an engineer is there, I can't explain exactly why it works at that point, but it's likely down to it being rebooted whilst he's there and not having done channel optimisation yet (which is supposedly quite bad on the Hub 3 and should be turned off).

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Very Insightful Person
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Message 23 of 34
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Re: Very slow unreliable broadband 2019 (SH3)

http://www.speedtest.net/global-index
Pretty slow averages for " speeds up to a terabyte per second"

As a Very Insightful Person, I'm here to share my knowledge. I don't work for Virgin Media.

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griffin
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Message 24 of 34
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Re: Very slow unreliable broadband 2019 (SH3)

To get actual speeds of 1Gbps wirelessly you will need 3 x 3 Wireless AC wave 2 clients at a minimum, the wireless routers are only half of the equation.

There are a few Wireless AD routers\clients about which can get actual speeds of above 1Gbps but due to the extremely short range of the 60GHz band I cannot see this standard becoming too popular.

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Abdallah
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Message 25 of 34
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Re: Very slow unreliable broadband 2019 (SH3)

Hi guys

Average results are way way off. I don’t deal in average. Only cutting edge best of the best.

All of the above countries and providers, without exception, provide devices to transmit on Wi-Fi. These routers are matched to speed. A simple google search will reveal this. So standard, why is this even being debated.

Speeds well over 1 tbs are installed for commercial applications such as data centres (over 60tbs), hospitals, banks, companies and a few universities. Again, this is common knowledge.

Fastest residential package is 1GBs in the U.K.  virgin is by no means the fastest in the country anymore. Hyperoptic. New kids on the block. Extremely tempted by them!

 

Very rarely would you find a provider that only provides a connection. It’s like selling a car without the tyres suspension and transmission. All u have is chassis and engine. It makes no business sense and is a horrible proposition for any customer. Even in South Africa, where the providers are happy to exclaim they have the fastest speeds “...on the planet...” (at the time 1mbs while I was on 150mbs in U.K.) they still provide you with a device that allegedly costs many hundreds of pounds for free. It’s just another marketing ploy. 

 

Back to my issue. so spoke to virgin. They sent out a fantastic engineer. This guy clearly knew his stuff. Spent about an hour here. He checked all the connections very methodically. Replaced a barrel joint (or whatever) for the incoming cable. Replaced the SH3 as, guess what, he cannot explain why the Wi-Fi Range was so limited. This is the 3rd SH3 we’ve had in 2 years.

 

Round of applause for a fantastic device. Very reliable and very complimentary of the service I’m paying for. (In case the sarcasm escapes you, it’s the sh*ttest router on the planet and I am ashamed of having such a **bleep** poor piece of crap in my residence.)

 

However... with Super Hub 3.3.....

happy to report, 380mbs download on my iPhones 7 plus. To all u doubters out there!!!! Not 200. Not 300. But 380mbs. Well happy. My Wi-Fi now does not dip below 80mbs anywhere in the flat or balcony.

 

the engineer has reinforced the fact that SH3 is NOT a good router. His advice is to use in modem mode only as I think you all do here. He agreed with me that this was a shortcoming of the device. He also agreed that virgin should recommend purchasing additional devices but don’t as company policy.

 

if you buy a car and it is advertised to drive up to 300mph, it should drive 300mph right?

 

the car manufacturer does not say “...oh no to actually get to 300mph, you need to buy this and that and bolt it on to the engine...”

 

you are making a distinction between “connection speed” and “Wi-Fi speed” perhaps because you are technically minded.

 

general public don’t give a crap. Neither should you.

 

When it says 300mbs, and it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE almost half of internet traffic is on phones and thusly Wi-Fi, it should be 300mbs. No caveats. It’s black and white. Any discrepancy should be unacceptable and people shouldn’t let big companies get away with blatant lies and poor excuses.

 

Using the same analogy, does Bugatti supply their Chiron with tyres that can only handle speeds up to 200mph? No. That’s literally dumb.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/387447/consumer-electronic-devices-by-internet-access-in-the-uk/

 

With the power line, I have good coverage. I just need to buy one more slave wifi bit for the powerline just to fill in on one side and I think we are 100%. Switched off channel optimisation and separated 2.4 and 5 SSID.

 

we were paying £51.50 a month for the top package as we “...hadn’t adjusted our package in almost 2 years...”  not sure what the hell that meant. In case the audacity escapes you, advertised package is £50pm. I’m sure someone here is going to wag their finger and say “...yeah they’re allowed to increase by RPI...”

my response is, yes they’re allowed, but should they?

 

the lady at the retention team was very nice. My monthly has been reduced to a ridiculously low rate. Like OMG low. I cannot say no.

 

i have to admit, virgin have made us happy (for now).

 

thanks to all for your advice. May 2019 see us all in uninterrupted Wi-Fi  (and not Ethernet) bliss. 

If anyone has any questions on how this issue was resolved, don’t hesitate to post here.

 

thanks everyone and best of luck!

 

 

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DreamOfCheese
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Message 26 of 34
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Re: Very slow unreliable broadband 2019 (SH3)

It has been quite some time since I've read such a long message filled with such a large amount of absolutely incorrect information that it begins to be difficult to even fathom where you picked up these 'facts'.

The countries you listed do NOT provide wireless routers 'matched to speed' because once you exceed around the speed of Virgins top package it's not possible to achieve the speed over a wireless connection to a single device.

Speeds 'well over 1tbs' are NOT installed in commercial applications as you cannot achieve such a speed over a single connection, the only connections in that sort of range are the submarine cables connecting countries, and some of those don't exceed 8tbps and are also over a cluster of many cables together.
Universities get 1gbps, 10gbps, or 40gbps depending what JANET (the UKs academic network) provides them based on need and size, again this is not 1 terabyte per second.
Hospitals are going to be getting the same sort of speeds, considering hospitals are often provided by BT or Virgin for their leased lines it's going to be either 1gbps or 10gbps.
Schools are going to depend on the council in the area, but in the UK they're not going to exceed 1gbps as it's provided by BT, Virgin, or JANET.
Datacenters do not get this quoted '60 terabytes per second' you've mentioned, they tend to have redundant 40gbps links to various peers or transit providers, but that does not equal 60 terabytes per second by any math.
I don't know where exactly you've been getting this 'knowledge' but you need to disregard whatever source you got it from, as it's beyond wrong. Keep in mind the fastest single connection that's achievable with commercial technology right now is 100gbps and the hardware is ludicrously expensive, and even with that you'd need 80 cables to provide this 1 terabyte per second you seem to think everyone has.

The rest of your message is primarily just incoherent rambling that warrants no response, however this part regarding 'distinction between connection speed and wifi speed' if you can name me a UK ISP that actually advertise using 'wifi speed' and not just the speed of the actual connection the home is being provided with that'd be great, just due to the laws of physics and the nature of radio frequency communications it's impossible to guarantee a wireless speed, or even achieve a wireless speed above certain speeds.
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Forum Team (Retired) Kaz_A
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Message 27 of 34
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Re: Very slow unreliable broadband 2019 (SH3)

Hi Abdallah

I'm happy to see that the tech has been able to fix this for you.

Keep us posted going forwards if you need anything else.

Take care

 


Forum Team

Need a helpful hand to show you how to make a payment? Check out our guide - "How to pay my Virgin Media bill"

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griffin
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Message 28 of 34
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Re: Very slow unreliable broadband 2019 (SH3)


@Abdallah wrote:

Hi guys

Average results are way way off. I don’t deal in average. Only cutting edge best of the best.

If you want the best of the best then get yourself your own Gb leased line, a snip at £750 installation and £350 a month after. If you what cutting edge you need to pay for it.

All of the above countries and providers, without exception, provide devices to transmit on Wi-Fi. These routers are matched to speed. A simple google search will reveal this. So standard, why is this even being debated.

This does not even make sense. For example the Hub 3 is capable of a link speed of 1.3Gbps which can give actual speeds of around 700Mbps provided you have a 3 x 3 Wireless AC client to match the Hub 3. I don't think VM do a 700Mbps package yet Smiley Happy

Speeds well over 1 tbs are installed for commercial applications such as data centres (over 60tbs), hospitals, banks, companies and a few universities. Again, this is common knowledge.

See DoC's informed answer

Fastest residential package is 1GBs in the U.K.  virgin is by no means the fastest in the country anymore. Hyperoptic. New kids on the block. Extremely tempted by them!

 Hyperoptic provide FTTP but have a very small coverage area and tend to only service large apartment blocks where they can get enough subscribers to recoup their installation costs. If you live in such an area go for it. It won't improve your wireless environment of wireless hardware though.

Very rarely would you find a provider that only provides a connection. It’s like selling a car without the tyres suspension and transmission. All u have is chassis and engine. It makes no business sense and is a horrible proposition for any customer. Even in South Africa, where the providers are happy to exclaim they have the fastest speeds “...on the planet...” (at the time 1mbs while I was on 150mbs in U.K.) they still provide you with a device that allegedly costs many hundreds of pounds for free. It’s just another marketing ploy. 

Every ISP provide a connection and a modem to get you on line, so as far as parts are concerned you have got everything to get online.
No ISP on the planet would provide a device costing hundreds of pound for free without recouping the cost, that would be financial suicide.
The last time I looked 150Mbps in the UK is a tad faster than 1Mbps in SA

Back to my issue. so spoke to virgin. They sent out a fantastic engineer. This guy clearly knew his stuff. Spent about an hour here. He checked all the connections very methodically. Replaced a barrel joint (or whatever) for the incoming cable. Replaced the SH3 as, guess what, he cannot explain why the Wi-Fi Range was so limited. This is the 3rd SH3 we’ve had in 2 years.

Anybody would be at a loss to explain WiFi range if not armed with a Spectrum Analyser to test for interference and a hour or two spare to test thoroughly to see what affects obstacles like walls and such like will have. It is very common to see people who do not understand how wireless works blame the Hub without performing even basic wireless diagnostics. Granted, the Hub 3 is a cheap entry level device much like any ISP's kit that can struggle in challenging wireless environments, in such cases additional hardware will be required. There are plenty of posts on the BT, Sky forums report the same issue.

Round of applause for a fantastic device. Very reliable and very complimentary of the service I’m paying for. (In case the sarcasm escapes you, it’s the sh*ttest router on the planet and I am ashamed of having such a **bleep** poor piece of crap in my residence.)

However... with Super Hub 3.3.....

happy to report, 380mbs download on my iPhones 7 plus. To all u doubters out there!!!! Not 200. Not 300. But 380mbs. Well happy. My Wi-Fi now does not dip below 80mbs anywhere in the flat or balcony.

So you are now saying the Hub 3 is fine????

the engineer has reinforced the fact that SH3 is NOT a good router. His advice is to use in modem mode only as I think you all do here. He agreed with me that this was a shortcoming of the device. He also agreed that virgin should recommend purchasing additional devices but don’t as company policy.

if you buy a car and it is advertised to drive up to 300mph, it should drive 300mph right?

Yes, on a straight road with no obstacles, you cannot blame the car for hairpin bends

the car manufacturer does not say “...oh no to actually get to 300mph, you need to buy this and that and bolt it on to the engine...”

 No, but the manufacturer will tell you if you want to get 300Mbps drive it on a racetrack

you are making a distinction between “connection speed” and “Wi-Fi speed” perhaps because you are technically minded.

general public don’t give a crap. Neither should you.

 Because they are completely different for technical reasons. The general public with a modicum of sense and a basic knowledge of how broadband and wireless works should have realistic expectations.

When it says 300mbs, and it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE almost half of internet traffic is on phones and thusly Wi-Fi, it should be 300mbs. No caveats. It’s black and white. Any discrepancy should be unacceptable and people shouldn’t let big companies get away with blatant lies and poor excuses.

Maybe you would care to explain how you can achieve wireless speeds of 300Mbps using a single stream 2.4GHz adapter like the Realtek RTL8723BE which would have a realistic top speed of around 45Mbps

Using the same analogy, does Bugatti supply their Chiron with tyres that can only handle speeds up to 200mph? No. That’s literally dumb.

No, the tyres can handle speeds up to 280mph  proved by tests on the Nurburgring, granted the tyres are a limited factor on reaching 300 mph.What you need to realise the Veyron started out as a technical concept, and as they say it is work in progress and it is up to the tyre manufacturers to catch up.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/387447/consumer-electronic-devices-by-internet-access-in-the-uk/

With the power line, I have good coverage. I just need to buy one more slave wifi bit for the powerline just to fill in on one side and I think we are 100%. Switched off channel optimisation and separated 2.4 and 5 SSID.

we were paying £51.50 a month for the top package as we “...hadn’t adjusted our package in almost 2 years...”  not sure what the hell that meant. In case the audacity escapes you, advertised package is £50pm. I’m sure someone here is going to wag their finger and say “...yeah they’re allowed to increase by RPI...”

my response is, yes they’re allowed, but should they

Yes, if they want to make a profit and stay in business as costs increase.

the lady at the retention team was very nice. My monthly has been reduced to a ridiculously low rate. Like OMG low. I cannot say no.

i have to admit, virgin have made us happy (for now).

 

thanks to all for your advice. May 2019 see us all in uninterrupted Wi-Fi  (and not Ethernet) bliss. 

If anyone has any questions on how this issue was resolved, don’t hesitate to post here.

 

thanks everyone and best of luck!

 

 


 

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Abdallah
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Message 29 of 34
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Re: Very slow unreliable broadband 2019 (SH3)

For those of you with manners, I apologise for THIS lengthy post.

 

To Dream of Cheese:

In case you forgot, this is the VIRGIN MEDIA COMMUNITY SUPPORT site. I don’t think its helpful for me or any other user to hear your opinions about my “ramblings”. If you don’t like it, please go help someone else. There is no need to be rude. I have been nothing but respectful of your opinion. I have never claimed to be an expert, or competent in IT technical. But it seems like this is what you are eluding you are. Congratulations…but have you no shame man. Do Doctors flex and make you feel like an idiot? I can’t help but feel your message was sent with some degree of hostility which is not productive. Is this a method of making you feel better? Do you not realise how your message comes across? I will gladly forensically go through my message(s) in response to your accusatory email, but I think you need to relax and socialise a bit more buddy. Have a little more compassion – otherwise why are you here? I’d hate to think what you would write to someone even less knowledgeable than myself. Sheesh!

 

To Griffin:

I really appreciate your input. So regarding your points, I don’t think a dedicated leased line is warranted. I was considering the BT one for the office, but we are happy with the service so far. I don’t think the prices they charge offers good value tbh. Perhaps if my business was heavily reliant on speed (stock trader or whatever) I would definitely consider it.

 

Regarding your point on VM Hub 3 and capable speeds, I believe you are correct. I’ve been told that it can handle about 900mbs as a modem. My understanding is I am on the fastest package VM do short of leasing a dedicated line, VIVID 350 which should average 362Mbps. I am getting well in excess of this now approaching 380Mbps (on iphone 7 plus) so I am quite happy with these speeds at the moment. I was even considering Hyperoptic which is effectively 1Gbps for the same money (so three times the speed almost for the same price). Better the devil you know I think. Plus having explored that company a little more, you are right. They do go through a 5 step program to get your road/block assessed and installed with Fibre cable right into the home. They say the installation (for the moment) is complimentary. Virgin and other Fibre optic service providers generally have FTTC which is to the Cabinet on the street as opposed to the Premises (FTTC/FTTP). I suspect there would be other advantages other than speed.

 

Internationally, I have heard of ISP’s retaining ownership of devices, ie if you cancel the subscription contract, you have to return the device. Not sure if this still exists though. But at the end of the day, in terms of manufacturing costs (not trade or retail price which is all I hear about on forums), what is the difference between SH3 and top of the line modem/router? At risk of looking like a fool and being ridiculed by DoC, a quick scan of Alibaba.com shows a comparable (slightly less spec’d) arris modem/router being sold at $75 a pop, MoQ of 1200 units. With buying power of a large corporate, I am sure they get it significantly cheaper. I think they could’ve spec’d it better for very little extra, but why do that when your users are used to it. If I had to guess, total production cost, R&D, shipping costs manufacturer about £12-15 per unit, and I am not exaggerating.

 

Regarding WIFI range and spectrum analyser. Not sure this is practical or commercially feasible for VM engineers to do this. The tests the engineer and I did were just speedtests at various distances from the Hub. Yes, its not technical but its enough. The engineer mentioned that for example foil backed insulation within partition walls etc would interfere with the signal. I have nothing like that as the apartment is practically open-plan. There are only a max of 4-5 SSID at any location in the apartment. That aspect was eliminated pretty swiftly by the engineer. But at my office (where I have BT fibre), there is a plethora of other WIFI SSID (at least 20) which I would imagine would make a more challenging environment. BT have the smart hub I think, and the experience I have had with it is excellent, unlike SH3 unfortunately.

 

However I am happy to report, two days later, the third SH3 we have had installed is working flawlessly. I am sorry about the race car analogy. It may have confused the situation slightly. What I was trying to say was, if they advertise something, there should be NO caveats otherwise in my legitimate opinion, the company is being surreptitious. (Caveats being, you will only get these speeds on ethernet and in safe mode).

 

Regarding the 300Mbps comment Griffin, this was on my iphone. I have done no test on my laptop (Realtek thing) until now. At the furthest point from SH3, on my laptop, speeds vary from 50-60 Mbps downstream and 21Mbps up. That’s fine really. Plus the laptop is actually connected via wifi to the TP-Link powerline thing and not the SH3 as signal won’t reach. I only use laptop for business.

 

SPEEDS.png

 

Screenshots above. Sorry if they didn’t come out. Top is wifi. Bottom is ethernet connected to TP-Link powerline (dedicated for LG Smart TV). I’m sure you will agree the difference is negligible for my needs. Poweline ethernet link (in case above is not visible) is 83 down and 21 up.

 

Thank you Griffin for helping me and for your patience. The more I read the more I learn. Hopefully others will find this useful too.

 

 

---------

 

So if anyone is interested in reading up on some of the things I mentioned in my last posts, please see below…

 

1.

It was alleged that…. “countries you listed do NOT provide wireless routers 'matched to speed' because once you exceed around the speed of Virgins top package it's not possible to achieve the speed over a wireless connection to a single device…

 

(Oh dear.) I can only assume this means no wireless routers in the world exceeding 350mbps. 

 

This is VIEWQWEST. The Singaporean equivalent of Virgin Media.

https://viewqwest.com/internet/broadband-plans

They provide NETGEAR® Orbi™ Tri-Band WiFi System AC2200 for 2 Gbps connection, allegedly worth $429. LOL! Their BASE model is the NETGEAR® AC1600 Smart WiFi Router.

 

This is Bahnhof. The Swedish equivalent of VM.

https://www.bahnhof.se/

They have the Huawei DG8245W2 which they charge the equivalent of £85.35 at today’s rate.

http://carrier.huawei.com/en-ZA/products/fixed-network/access/cpe/h-series-products/dg8245w2

 

I’ve tried getting some South Korean examples. Unfortunately, they either don’t have pages translated or very little to no detail on the modem/routers they provide as standard. The three I checked were SK Broadband, KT Corporation and LG Uplus. My Korean friend tell me to not even bother mentioning their stats here as it is obvious the figures will be dismissed as outlandish. “Super cheap and super fast”.

 

Let’s check out our cousins across the Channel. Orange seem to be the fastest provider in France.

https://boutique.orange.fr/internet/offres-fibre/livebox-up

Not only do they give you a Livebox 4, but they also suggest buying a WIFI repeater for 89Euros (could also be free but its slightly ambiguous). Hmmm. Why suggest buying a repeater DoC?

Livebox 4 is free with all packages similar to SH3 for us. I believe somewhere it states the repeater is free with top package (or you can choose it from a list of devices).

https://assistance.orange.fr/equipement/livebox-et-modems/livebox-4-sagemcom-sercomm

 

Here are the guys across the pond (USA). All provide devices for free with wifi rated relative to connection speed.

https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/fastest-internet-providers/

 

CONCLUSION

Virgin is not the fastest in the UK let alone the world. Most if not all ISPs provide wireless routers that can handle the bandwidth. A typical 10Gbps connection is supplied with a device with 802.11ad which I believe can handle speeds at around 8Gbps.

 

-----------

 

2.

It was alleged that…. “Speeds 'well over 1tbs' are NOT installed in commercial applications…

 

Perhaps this wasn’t explained properly, I was and am talking on a global level.

 

WORLDS FASTEST INTERNET – 1.6 TERABITS per second

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXt2gD4fS_k

 

FASTEST INTERNET SPEEDS EVER RECORDED

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/fastest-internet-speed-ever-recorded/

 

Data Center in San Diego achieves capacity of 31.2 Tbps

https://phys.org/news/2018-03-fast-high-capacity-fiber-transmission.html

 

Single cable developed that takes 43 Tbps

https://www.uniplustelecom.co.uk/high-quality-fibre-broadband/the-fastest-fibre-broadband-ever-43-tb...

 

JANET website. See DID YOU KNOW section, last point…

https://www.jisc.ac.uk/janet

quoting verbatim… “We have a total of over 1.5 Tbps of connectivity to hundreds of global networks, cloud services, content providers and more”

 

Multiple sites refer to fastest test speed ever recorded USING COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE EQUIPMENT which was 255 Tbps or 32 TBps. (See later).

 

Over 10 years ago, residential connection hit 40Gbps in sweden

https://www.thelocal.se/20070712/7869

 

In 2013, GCHQ Tempora network can tap and process upto 46 fibre-optic cables at any one time. “…Each of the cables carries data at a rate of 10 gigabits per second, so the tapped cables had the capacity, in theory, to deliver more than 21 petabytes a day.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa

THAT WAS 2013!!!!

 

New single undersea cable installed rated at 60tb/s in 2016.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/google-faster-cable-japan-us

 

MAREA cable handles 160 tbps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAREA

 

Oddly I cannot find any reference to data center speeds.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-internet-speed-at-a-datacenter

 

CONCLUSION

Multiple applications with speeds at or exceeding 1tbps. Multiple cables with speeds capable in excess of 1 tbps. What is GCHQ running? How about Data centers? Google? Netflix? Netflix have over 1 petabyte in storage and 74 million global customers. 

 

3.

It was alleged…. “fastest single connection that's achievable with commercial technology right now is 100gbps and the hardware is ludicrously expensive, and even with that you'd need 80 cables to provide this 1 terabyte per second you seem to think everyone has.”

 

https://www.versatek.com/blog/cable-war-copper-vs-fiber/

Dense mode multiplexing ring a bell? There are multiple online references that directly contradicts DoC claim. Verbatim…

“A joint group of researchers from the Netherlands and the US have smashed the world speed record for a fiber network, pushing 255 terabits per second down a single strand of glass fiber. This is equivalent to around 32 terabytes per second — enough to transfer a 1GB movie in 31.25 microseconds (0.03 milliseconds), or alternatively, the entire contents of your 1TB hard drive in about 31 milliseconds.”

 

Whaaaaa…?

 

 

4.

It was alleged… “if you can name me a UK ISP that actually advertise using 'wifi speed' and not just the speed of the actual connection the home is being provided with that'd be great, just due to the laws of physics and the nature of radio frequency communications it's impossible to guarantee a wireless speed, or even achieve a wireless speed above certain speeds.”

 

Why go far? Check out VM’s own website. This is British and presumably YOUR ISP!

 

https://store.virginmedia.com/discover/broadband/explore/fast-wireless.html

 

Verbatim…

“Our Hub 3.0 gives superfast WiFi speeds that stay fast across loads of devices. When you team this with VIVID – our next generation optical fibre with download speeds of up to 300Mbps – you can unlock ultrafast WiFi speeds throughout your home.”

 

So how many fudged stats in that one statement?

 

 

---------

 

 

My point was simple: why stymie progress? Why deny technological advancements? Why happy with the same old same old, meanwhile other poorer nations invest and are at the forefront. 

 

I hope the above has been enlightening. I provide links in good faith. I am not an expert. But I know enough. I don’t like being rude, especially on an “educational” website meant to help people. Any other forum, and its night night for the little myopic DoC man.

 

Best of luck peeps. Stay happy and stay lucky!

 

 

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Abdallah
On our wavelength
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Message 30 of 34
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Re: Very slow unreliable broadband 2019 (SH3)

For those of you with manners, I apologise for THIS lengthy post.

 

To Dream of Cheese:

In case you forgot, this is the VIRGIN MEDIA COMMUNITY SUPPORT site. I don’t think its helpful for me or any other user to hear your opinions about my “ramblings”. If you don’t like it, please go help someone else. There is no need to be rude. I have been nothing but respectful of your opinion. I have never claimed to be an expert, or competent in IT technical. But it seems like this is what you are eluding you are. Congratulations…but have you no shame man. Do Doctors flex and make you feel like an idiot? I can’t help but feel your message was sent with some degree of hostility which is not productive. Is this a method of making you feel better? Do you not realise how your message comes across? I will gladly forensically go through my message(s) in response to your accusatory email, but I think you need to relax and socialise a bit more buddy. Have a little more compassion – otherwise why are you here? I’d hate to think what you would write to someone even less knowledgeable than myself. Sheesh!

 

To Griffin:

I really appreciate your input. So regarding your points, I don’t think a dedicated leased line is warranted. I was considering the BT one for the office, but we are happy with the service so far. I don’t think the prices they charge offers good value tbh. Perhaps if my business was heavily reliant on speed (stock trader or whatever) I would definitely consider it.

 

Regarding your point on VM Hub 3 and capable speeds, I believe you are correct. I’ve been told that it can handle about 900mbs as a modem. My understanding is I am on the fastest package VM do short of leasing a dedicated line, VIVID 350 which should average 362Mbps. I am getting well in excess of this now approaching 380Mbps (on iphone 7 plus) so I am quite happy with these speeds at the moment. I was even considering Hyperoptic which is effectively 1Gbps for the same money (so three times the speed almost for the same price). Better the devil you know I think. Plus having explored that company a little more, you are right. They do go through a 5 step program to get your road/block assessed and installed with Fibre cable right into the home. They say the installation (for the moment) is complimentary. Virgin and other Fibre optic service providers generally have FTTC which is to the Cabinet on the street as opposed to the Premises (FTTC/FTTP). I suspect there would be other advantages other than speed.

 

Internationally, I have heard of ISP’s retaining ownership of devices, ie if you cancel the subscription contract, you have to return the device. Not sure if this still exists though. But at the end of the day, in terms of manufacturing costs (not trade or retail price which is all I hear about on forums), what is the difference between SH3 and top of the line modem/router? At risk of looking like a fool and being ridiculed by DoC, a quick scan of Alibaba.com shows a comparable (slightly less spec’d) arris modem/router being sold at $75 a pop, MoQ of 1200 units. With buying power of a large corporate, I am sure they get it significantly cheaper. I think they could’ve spec’d it better for very little extra, but why do that when your users are used to it. If I had to guess, total production cost, R&D, shipping costs manufacturer about £12-15 per unit, and I am not exaggerating.

 

Regarding WIFI range and spectrum analyser. Not sure this is practical or commercially feasible for VM engineers to do this. The tests the engineer and I did were just speedtests at various distances from the Hub. Yes, its not technical but its enough. The engineer mentioned that for example foil backed insulation within partition walls etc would interfere with the signal. I have nothing like that as the apartment is practically open-plan. There are only a max of 4-5 SSID at any location in the apartment. That aspect was eliminated pretty swiftly by the engineer. But at my office (where I have BT fibre), there is a plethora of other WIFI SSID (at least 20) which I would imagine would make a more challenging environment. BT have the smart hub I think, and the experience I have had with it is excellent, unlike SH3 unfortunately.

 

However I am happy to report, two days later, the third SH3 we have had installed is working flawlessly. I am sorry about the race car analogy. It may have confused the situation slightly. What I was trying to say was, if they advertise something, there should be NO caveats otherwise in my legitimate opinion, the company is being surreptitious. (Caveats being, you will only get these speeds on ethernet and in safe mode).

 

Regarding the 300Mbps comment Griffin, this was on my iphone. I have done no test on my laptop (Realtek thing) until now. At the furthest point from SH3, on my laptop, speeds vary from 50-60 Mbps downstream and 21Mbps up. That’s fine really. Plus the laptop is actually connected via wifi to the TP-Link powerline thing and not the SH3 as signal won’t reach. I only use laptop for business.

 

 

SPEEDS.png

  

Screenshots above. Sorry if they didn’t come out. Top is wifi. Bottom is ethernet connected to TP-Link powerline (dedicated for LG Smart TV). I’m sure you will agree the difference is negligible for my needs. Poweline ethernet link (in case above is not visible) is 83 down and 21 up.

 

Thank you Griffin for helping me and for your patience. The more I read the more I learn. Hopefully others will find this useful too.

 

 

---------

 

So if anyone is interested in reading up on some of the things I mentioned in my last posts, please see below…

 

1.

It was alleged that…. “countries you listed do NOT provide wireless routers 'matched to speed' because once you exceed around the speed of Virgins top package it's not possible to achieve the speed over a wireless connection to a single device…”

 

(Oh dear.) So allegedly no wireless routers exceeding 350mbps.

 

This is VIEWQWEST. The Singaporean equivalent of Virgin Media.

https://viewqwest.com/internet/broadband-plans

They provide NETGEAR® Orbi™ Tri-Band WiFi System AC2200 for 2 Gbps connection, allegedly worth $429. LOL! Their BASE model is the NETGEAR® AC1600 Smart WiFi Router.

 

This is Bahnhof. The Swedish equivalent of VM.

https://www.bahnhof.se/

They have the Huawei DG8245W2 which they charge the equivalent of £85.35 at today’s rate.

http://carrier.huawei.com/en-ZA/products/fixed-network/access/cpe/h-series-products/dg8245w2

 

I’ve tried getting some South Korean examples. Unfortunately, they either don’t have pages translated or very little to no detail on the modem/routers they provide as standard. The three I checked were SK Broadband, KT Corporation and LG Uplus. My Korean friend tell me to not even bother mentioning their stats here as it is obvious the figures will be dismissed as outlandish. “Super cheap and super fast”.

 

Let’s check out our cousins across the Channel. Orange seem to be the fastest provider in France.

https://boutique.orange.fr/internet/offres-fibre/livebox-up

Not only do they give you a Livebox 4, but they also suggest buying a WIFI repeater for 89Euros (could also be free but its slightly ambiguous). Hmmm. Why suggest buying a repeater DoC?

Livebox 4 is free with all packages similar to SH3 for us. I believe somewhere it states the repeater is free with top package (or you can choose it from a list of devices).

https://assistance.orange.fr/equipement/livebox-et-modems/livebox-4-sagemcom-sercomm

 

Here are the guys across the pond (USA). All provide devices for free with wifi rated relative to connection speed.

https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/fastest-internet-providers/

 

CONCLUSION

Virgin is not the fastest in the UK let alone the world. Most if not all ISPs provide wireless routers that can handle the bandwidth. A typical 10Gbps connection is supplied with a device with 802.11ad which I believe can handle speeds at around 8Gbps.

 

-----------

 

2.

It was alleged that…. “Speeds 'well over 1tbs' are NOT installed in commercial applications…”

 

Perhaps this wasn’t explained properly, I was and am talking on a global level.

 

WORLDS FASTEST INTERNET – 1.6 TERABITS per second

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXt2gD4fS_k

 

FASTEST INTERNET SPEEDS EVER RECORDED

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/fastest-internet-speed-ever-recorded/

 

Data Center in San Diego achieves capacity of 31.2 Tbps

https://phys.org/news/2018-03-fast-high-capacity-fiber-transmission.html

 

Single cable developed that takes 43 Tbps

https://www.uniplustelecom.co.uk/high-quality-fibre-broadband/the-fastest-fibre-broadband-ever-43-tb...

 

JANET website. See DID YOU KNOW section, last point…

https://www.jisc.ac.uk/janet

quoting verbatim… “We have a total of over 1.5 Tbps of connectivity to hundreds of global networks, cloud services, content providers and more”

 

Multiple sites refer to fastest test speed ever recorded USING COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE EQUIPMENT which was 255 Tbps or 32 TBps. (See later).

 

Over 10 years ago, residential connection hit 40Gbps in sweden

https://www.thelocal.se/20070712/7869

 

In 2013, GCHQ Tempora network can tap and process upto 46 fibre-optic cables at any one time. “…Each of the cables carries data at a rate of 10 gigabits per second, so the tapped cables had the capacity, in theory, to deliver more than 21 petabytes a day.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa

THAT’S 2013!!!!

 

New single undersea cable installed rated at 60tb/s in 2016.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/google-faster-cable-japan-us

 

MAREA cable handles 160 tbps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAREA

 

Oddly I cannot find any reference to data center speeds.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-internet-speed-at-a-datacenter

 

CONCLUSION

Multiple applications with speeds at or exceeding 1tbps. Multiple cables with speeds capable in excess of 1 tbps. What is GCHQ running? How about Data centers? Google? Netflix? Netflix have over 1 petabyte in storage and 74 million global customers.

 

--------------------------

 

3.

It was alleged…. “fastest single connection that's achievable with commercial technology right now is 100gbps and the hardware is ludicrously expensive, and even with that you'd need 80 cables to provide this 1 terabyte per second you seem to think everyone has.”

 

https://www.versatek.com/blog/cable-war-copper-vs-fiber/

Dense mode multiplexing ring a bell? There are multiple online references that directly contradicts DoC claim. Verbatim…

“A joint group of researchers from the Netherlands and the US have smashed the world speed record for a fiber network, pushing 255 terabits per second down a single strand of glass fiber. This is equivalent to around 32 terabytes per second — enough to transfer a 1GB movie in 31.25 microseconds (0.03 milliseconds), or alternatively, the entire contents of your 1TB hard drive in about 31 milliseconds.”

 

Whaaaaa…?

 

 ---------------------------

 

4.

It was alleged… “if you can name me a UK ISP that actually advertise using 'wifi speed' and not just the speed of the actual connection the home is being provided with that'd be great, just due to the laws of physics and the nature of radio frequency communications it's impossible to guarantee a wireless speed, or even achieve a wireless speed above certain speeds.”

 

Why go far? Check out VM’s own website. This is British and presumably YOUR ISP!

 

https://store.virginmedia.com/discover/broadband/explore/fast-wireless.html

 

Verbatim…

“Our Hub 3.0 gives superfast WiFi speeds that stay fast across loads of devices. When you team this with VIVID – our next generation optical fibre with download speeds of up to 300Mbps – you can unlock ultrafast WiFi speeds throughout your home.”

 

So how many fudged stats in that one statement?

 

 

---------

 

 

My point was simple: why stymie progress? Why deny technological advancements? Why happy with the same old same old, meanwhile other poorer nations invest and are at the forefront.

 

I hope the above has been enlightening. I provide links in good faith. I am not an expert. But I know enough. I don’t like being rude, especially on an “educational” websites meant to help people. Any other forum, and its night night for the little myopic DoC man.

 

Best of luck peeps. Stay happy and stay lucky!

 

 Smiley Happy

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