TP Link Switch/50m Outdoor Cable

[LanceyBoy13]

Hi all,

I have been trying to get decent Wi-Fi (now wired ethernet) in my garden room/shed/patio area.  I tried Wi-Fi Booster from VM (2-8 Mbps), then 2 x Wi-Fi pods (0-4 Mbps) from VM but not good enough, so bit the bullet and have run a 50m outdoor cable direct from Hub 3.0 to a Tp-Link TL-SG108PE 8 port switch (4 + 4POE).  I have also used the 5 port version (1 + 5POE).  I need POE for Hikvision cameras.  I also plan to use a PC and/or laptop in good weather.

The problem is that for a while I was achieving 550+ Mbps (Have 600 package) and with a TP-Link Omada Access Point 350+ over Wi-Fi.  All was well, then after a short period of time the levels drop off to almost nothing, or it might be picking up the Wi-Fi from the main house and we are suddenly looking at 0-4 Mbps. Reboot switch and we are good to go a gain until it drops off again. Tried this many times now, works for a while then issues.

I have tested the cables, plugged a laptop directly into end of 50m cable and all is well.  I thought TP-Link switches might be the issue so tried a Netgear GS105UK connected to Hub 3.0, then connecting 50m cable to that.  All was well, then same issues has occurred.

I am confident all my cables are fine and believe it to be a compatibility issues with VM Hub 3.0 as can't think what else.

I have numerous devices on the network that I think are all working OK - both wired and wireless.

What are the issues here?

Hub 3.0?
TP-Link Switch?
Netgear Switch?
Any Switch ?!?!?
TP-Link/Omada Access Point?
50m Cable (Quality, solid outdoor cable in conduit) - Tested with a tester unit?

It is driving me mad, so I thought I would try here before the dreaded call to VM..... 🙂

Any help, suggestions.....anything....appreciated.

Thanks.

[Eeeps]

OK. Cable does look good on the face of it.

Have you tried connecting the laptop directly to the 50m cable? Does this fail too? If so can you check what the link speed is when in a failed condition?

I think you mentioned that disconnecting and reconnecting the cable restores the speed, you don't need to reboot the switches - is that correct?
How is power supplied to the shed? Is that routed alongside the Ethernet cable?

[LanceyBoy13]

Power to shed is via armoured cable buried left side of garden.  Spur off of downstairs ring (one of two power rings).

Ethernet cable is run above ground (currently) in conduit and then clipped to back of fence right side of the garden and rear of garden. It does run parallel and is cable tied to a power lead that feeds some external lighting on the fence posts at rear of garden.  It runs parallel for about 8 fence panels in a flexi conduit.

Interestingly, when I networked the house with 5e about 15 years back, I had to run the cables alongside twin and earth and alarm cable in some cases and haven't found that a problem (that I know of)

It begs the question, should I try (if available) a shielded cable?

The last couple of times it has failed I have simply disconnected the cable one end (either Hub 3.0, or at switch in shed) and after a few seconds we're at full speed again.  Yesterday I was rebooting the switch.  Hub 3.0 has been up for about 17 days since last reboot.

So yes in answer to your question, correct, I haven't needed to reboot switches.  Switches are new, all bought in last 3 months, two of them this weekend!

Logically (and we all know that logic can sometimes not apply to computers!) it must either be the cable, or some compatibility issue with the switches, but then I have similar switches around the house and never had a problem, well one that I am aware of.

It's the fact that it is an intermittent fault that gets me.

What I haven't tried is rebooting all switches at some point, but not sure what that gains as rest of network seems OK and no conflicts.
Sonos OK, Hikvision cameras x 4 OK, servers OK and internet OK.

Scratching head furiously!! 😂😂😂

Really appreciating the responses, as I must admit I didn't think I'd get any help on here, so thanks. 😁

[Eeeps]

It is a strange one. I did notice in the picture of the end of the cable that's in the 'shed' that the boot seemed to have been pulled back. Are you sure that this has not caused some issue with the crimps?

In terms of compatibility of switches, one of your tests used TP-Link at both ends - I can't believe that would be a problem.

To really prove that the TP-Link can work with the SH3, could you connect a short Ethernet cable and run that for a while.

BTW, how long does it take for it to fail? Any pattern / relationship to possible electrical equipment switching / use?

In terms of STP, I'm not an advocate. The shield can cause more problems that it helps with. The Ethernet devices on UTP should have a common mode rejection of 30V ac (that is 30v can be induced in the two conductors of the twisted pair before the balanced receiver has problems)

[legacy1]

So try a new router and put hub in modem mode.

[Andrew-G]

"cable tied to a power lead that feeds some external lighting on the fence posts at rear of garden"

So you've got the cable not merely parallel to an extended mains run, but in the closest possible proximity.  Reading quickly through the thread it isn't clear to me if you've tried the arrangement with the cable away from the conduit, eg as a temporary trial just running across the ground.  Shorter runs in the house may be working fine, but sounds like you've got around 50 feet like this?  If this seems to work without problems, then either find a new route away from the power cable, or try shielded cable - I've got a couple of mid length (10m) Cat 7 cables, they work without problems for me.

If that draws a blank, then since you're running two different brands of switches and the (mediocre) hub, perhaps time to consider cutting your losses and buying a good router, and same-brand switches and a new long Cat 8 cable?  You early said " why should I invest in a new router?" to which the obvious answer is that the Hub 3 is a circa 2013 design, it features a pound shop router, and you've invested in all manner of fancy security cameras and other networking.  The network setup is unbalanced, like a car with great handling potential but a weak engine.

[LanceyBoy13]

Todays update:
Tested setup and found next to nothing in terms of Mbps at shed, so I unplugged the 60m cable for a split second (didn't even pull it clear of socket on switch) and plugged back in and we are back up to maximum speeds.  650+ wired, 125-350+ wireless depending on nearness of AP.

Power cable running parallel for part of ethernet run is live 24/7 as it feeds Philips Hue lamps on fence posts, so we have a constant state of interference (if any).

Reading up on this, (and many have opinions) with such a low load through power cable it should not massively (if at all) impact on ethernet cable.

It's the intermittent nature of this that is so frustrating. Full throttle one minute then give it half an hour or so (I don't know the exact duration before failure) and we are running on empty!

Bizarre!

I guess the next option to rule out any power interference is to unclip the cable from behind the fence and run it direct across the lawn avoiding power cables and see if that works - or buy a second cable to try directly to save the work unclipping etc.

[Andrew-G]

Reading up on this, (and many have opinions) with such a low load through power cable it should not massively (if at all) impact on ethernet cable.

You're probably right, but Cat 6 cable is, what up to 1 Gbps over 100m, and you're pushing 0.65 Gbps across 60m, so the headroom isn't that great given that the hub will probably be running its ethernet connections at 250 MHz (and maybe only 100 MHz), and then you've got the unscreened cable tied together with mains for 16 metres or so.  With 60 metres, and a WAP on the end of that, it is also possible that you're encountering signal attenuation issues.  Yes, it SHOULD work fine, but if it was then you'd not be pulling your hair out. 

so I unplugged the 60m cable for a split second (didn't even pull it clear of socket on switch) and plugged back in and we are back up to maximum speeds.

If physical disturbance makes things better (or indeed worse) then don't discount a broken core, a poorly made crimp, or an out-of-spec plug moulding any of which may not be apparent even with close inspection.  Solid core is good stuff, but it isn't built for repeated handling, and every time the cable is handled, unplugged, replugged, cable routing changed you're eating away at the fatigue life.

I guess the next option to rule out any power interference is to unclip the cable from behind the fence and run it direct across the lawn avoiding power cables and see if that works -

Or just unplug the mains connector for the fence lighting?  That'll isolate any mains borne interference.

All of which still says "Sorry, I don't know, could be anything". 

[LanceyBoy13]

Andrew,

Thanks for your response.

I have just found some 15 year old Cat5 cable in a cable box that I used to wire the house all that time ago!

I have quickly knocked up my own 40-ish meter cable running through the house and across the lawn to shed.  Tested cable with a tester, all good and plugged it in - within seconds I have full capacity. I haven't checked wired, but wireless hit over 500Mbps stood next to AP.

I am now going to leave it and see if strength degrades over the next few hours.  If it does, then head scratching begins, if it doesn't and remains stable, then that leaves only 2 possible outcomes:

# Faulty 60m cable/connectors😂😂
# Electrical interference.

I would then switch off power to lights to rule that issue in or out and also run my homemade cable along a similar path to replicate conditions.
If that doesn't identify the problem I might have to get some tin cans and string out! 😂

I could also try chopping the RJ45s on 60m cable and replacing with my own.....

Options....

[LanceyBoy13 · Accepted solution]

Morning all,

I have resolved my issues after spending about 5-6 hours on the phone speaking to about 9 or 10 different people at VM.

Sadly the depth of knowledge, and the willingness to help seems to vary massively between staff.

I can confirm that there is no problem with the switch, no problem with the cable, nor the 60m length, nor it being Cat 5e.  Electrical interference is also not an issue. So what was the problem....well, apparently if you are running a long cable you need to plug it into Port #1.  I did this and it worked fine, and continued to do so for longer than the 10-20 minutes before.  However, what then happened was that my upstairs area dropped off to near zero Mbps.  These are shorter cable runs within the house - 10m ,20m, no more than 30m maximum.  Great I thought, one problem solved but created another.  So I introduced a 4-port switch, plugged into Port #1 with the shed 60m cable, and the upstairs cable which also runs a couple of switches to share connection.  All has been fine now for over 48 hours. Result!

I had one guy at VM suggest I should buy another Cat 6 or Cat 7 cable.  I had another suggest that "I was asking the impossible" and he was getting quite frustrated with me.... I had others get obsessed with me looking at my Wi-Fi pods (nothing to do with this issue) and so on....The whole experience was very frustrating.

Eventually to try and speak to an experienced technical department I called up and spoke to the Retentions Team who put me through to a very helpful chap who suggested the Port #1 option.  He called back the following morning as promised. So simple if only I had spoken to him first.

I would strongly advise someone senior at VM to try calling in with a selection of issues and see just how bad it can be being passed from pillar to post, getting cut-off, not receiving promised call backs, and one guy promised to call me back but his manager instructed him not to do so!
Many staff clearly have "a script" and if you go "off piste" they either can't, or are unwilling to help.

Appalling service.  I have always been supportive of VM and do appreciate staffing levels might be impacted by Covid, but this has been an eye-opener.

I should add that throughout all of this I was calm and polite when inwardly I was FUMING.

Anyway, I got there in the end as there was no way I would let this beat me.  Far more to this, but didn't post it all!

I do not know if there is any documentation to support this, but I certainly haven't found anything to say use Port #1 etc, or any information about long cable runs.  I would also question if the Hub 3.0 is fit for purpose if it can't power all 4 ports sufficiently.  I was offered a Hub 4.0 but told I couldn't because the 1Gig service is not available in my area.  Really?  Could I not just have the Hub 4.0

One final question..... If I were to buy a 3rd party router, would that provide a better strength signal across all ports (wired) as I cannot seem to find anything definitive.  I would assume YES?

Thanks for all those that tried to help me out.

[legacy1]

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@LanceyBoy13 wrote:

One final question..... If I were to buy a 3rd party router, would that provide a better strength signal across all ports (wired) as I cannot seem to find anything definitive.  I would assume YES?

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Yes and try modem mode per port to see if all ports work fine not just port 1.