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jbrennand
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Intelligent wifi on the "mighty" Hub3

As per title - apart from a wifi scanning App and some free boosters for some customers, what is new in the Hub3 firmware update?  The glossy bits (link) mention the channel optimisation and single ssid "band steering"  that have been there for a while, but "Airtime Fairness" I haven't come across (I dont have or want a Hub3).  So what is it, is it new and does it work as well as the other 2 lovely features on the "Mighty Hub3"?  And might it be at the root cause of the recent spate of poor connections for Samsung users etc?

https://www.virginmedia.com/shop/broadband/intelligent-wifi.html%20.html


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Services: HD TV on VIP (+ Sky Sports & Movies & BT sport), x3 V6 boxes (1 wired 2 WiFi,) SH2 in modem mode with Airport Extreme Router. On VIVID200, Talk Anytime Phone, x2 Mobile SIM only iPhones.
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DreamOfCheese
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Re: Intelligent wifi on the "mighty" Hub3

Airtime Fairness is a technology quite a few access points support, it makes the access point dedicate the same amount of time to each client instead of dedicating a certain amount of frames, as some lower performance or more distant clients take longer to send/receive frames.

I've got it enabled on my Unifi APs currently and it's increased the throughput to my clients.
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jbrennand
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Re: Intelligent wifi on the "mighty" Hub3

Thanks DOC - is that a preset on the Hub and is it subsequently adjustable for each device? Also what happens if a device "exceeds" its allocated time ?

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DreamOfCheese
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Re: Intelligent wifi on the "mighty" Hub3

It should be an option in the latest firmware, not sure if it'll default to on or not.
It's an AP-wide option, not configurable per device.

I believe the dedicated time is just for the processing of frames, any received will be queued for the next processing for that client.
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deans6571
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Re: Intelligent wifi on the "mighty" Hub3


@jbrennand wrote:

As per title - apart from a wifi scanning App and some free boosters for some customers, what is new in the Hub3 firmware update?  The glossy bits (link) mention the channel optimisation and single ssid "band steering"  that have been there for a while, but "Airtime Fairness" I haven't come across (I dont have or want a Hub3).  So what is it, is it new and does it work as well as the other 2 lovely features on the "Mighty Hub3"?  And might it be at the root cause of the recent spate of poor connections for Samsung users etc?

https://www.virginmedia.com/shop/broadband/intelligent-wifi.html%20.html


There’s already an ongoing thread here: 

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Networking-and-WiFi/Virgin-Media-Wifi-Intelligent-App/td-p/3818...

Why have you created another one?

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Superuser
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Re: Intelligent wifi on the "mighty" Hub3

More info on Airtime Fairness here:

https://routerguide.net/airtime-fairness-on-or-off/

Comments at the bottom of that page suggest it can cause issues for some devices, so could be related to the recent issues with Samsung devices and might be worth turning off if possible.  Not running my Hub 3 in router mode so can't say if VM have made Airtime Fairness an option that can be switched off.

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Scott

Disclaimer - I don't work for Virgin Media. I'm just another VM user trying to help out so my answers may be wrong Smiley Happy If my answer solves your problem please mark it as helpful as it may help others
My setup: Vivid 200 Optical fibre with Hub 3 in modem mode connected to a Netgear R7000 router. Telewest/VM user since 2001.

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jbrennand
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Re: Intelligent wifi on the "mighty" Hub3


@deans6571 wrote:

There’s already an ongoing thread here: 

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Networking-and-WiFi/Virgin-Media-Wifi-Intelligent-App/td-p/3818...

Why have you created another one?


Because I am old.


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jbrennand
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Re: Intelligent wifi on the "mighty" Hub3


@SCA1972 wrote:

More info on Airtime Fairness here:

https://routerguide.net/airtime-fairness-on-or-off/

Comments at the bottom of that page suggest it can cause issues for some devices, so could be related to the recent issues with Samsung devices and might be worth turning off if possible.  Not running my Hub 3 in router mode so can't say if VM have made Airtime Fairness an option that can be switched off.

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Scott


Thanks Scott - this is actually the reason I started a new thread - the other seemed more "Appcentric". 

Just trying to get my head around why the latest FU has caused so much angst for some wifi Hub3 users.  As it looks like this feature has just been added (has it ?)  - it would be a prime suspect.  I wonder if anyone with it on,  has switched it off (or visa versa) to see if it rectifies their problem.


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Services: HD TV on VIP (+ Sky Sports & Movies & BT sport), x3 V6 boxes (1 wired 2 WiFi,) SH2 in modem mode with Airport Extreme Router. On VIVID200, Talk Anytime Phone, x2 Mobile SIM only iPhones.
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Superuser
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Message 9 of 22
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Re: Intelligent wifi on the "mighty" Hub3

I briefly switched my Hub 3 to router mode to look for an "Airtime Fairness" setting and I couldn't find one.  My Netgear router has an option under Wireless Advanced settings to turn it on and off.

So, my guess is that AF is either bundled in with the "Smart WiFi optimization" setting or is a setting that can't be turned off.

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griffin
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Message 10 of 22
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Helpful Answer

Re: Intelligent wifi on the "mighty" Hub3


@jbrennand wrote:
Thanks DOC - is that a preset on the Hub and is it subsequently adjustable for each device? Also what happens if a device "exceeds" its allocated time ?

Whilst the aim is to allocate each connected device the same amount of talktime to the router, it is not controlled by a timer.

The main thing to understand is that only one client can talk to a router at a time, and wireless transmissions are carried out a frame at a time.

.Once a client has negotiated a contention slot with the router via a two way handshake, the client then transmits it's frame and the backs off a random time before trying to send the next frame. As the back off time is random, each client should get about the same amount of transmission opportunities as DoC says.

As a very simplified example, with two clients connected A and B, the queue to talk to the router would look something like this.
ABBABAABABBA.

With Airtime Fairness the queue is seeded depending on the negotiated link speed negotiated between the Router and client which would depend on client capability and environmental factors like range and interference.

So if client A is sending say a standard frame (without Frame Aggregation) with a 1.5KB payload at a Link speed of 100Mbps (120us) and Client B at 50Mbps (240us) then the router would reject some of the slower client's transmission requests in relation to the Link speed ratio, in this case 2 \ 1

So, with airtime fairness the queue would look something like this.
ABBABAABABBA.  with the faster client getting more transmission opportunities, which should equate to the same airtime as the slower client.

Saying that, using just two clients is a poor example as there will not be enough load on the router to warrant ATF.

Making it configurable per device would defeat the object somewhat, as slower devices will still slow down the overall performance of the network.

I believe VM ATF, band steering and channel optimisation is all bundled under "Smart" WiFi, as VM do not like giving customers much control as it gives customers more chances to "break things" increasing VM's support costs, ATF is not configurable, either on or off.