Hub 4.0 - Replacement request please

[movisman]

Hi there,

I would like to request a replacement Hub 4.0 please, to replace one which is experiencing a few issues. A technician is not required - coax signal quality, speed etc, are all good and all sat within the correct thresholds. The issue is solely related to the hardware/software involving the Hub 4.0 and i'd like to try a replacement to see if it solves any of the issues i'm experiencing.

Currently I am facing several issues. I have searched the forum and one of the issues was resolved by swapping the Hub for a new one, and one is actually a bug I reported myself, which, while unlikely to be resolved by a hardware replacement (the issue appears to be firmware related), you never know as perhaps later shipments of the Hub 4.0 are newer hardware revisions.

Naturally, I have tried factory resetting the device, but unfortunately even with a full pin hole reset for 60 seconds, you cannot actually 'truly' factory reset the Hub 4.0. I know this because the DHCP table doesn't even flush and all devices will obtain the same address/lease even 'post reset'. The pinhole reset doesn't do much except reset all of the settings to default. It doesn't rewrite any firmware or put the device back to a fresh 'out of the box' state.

To summarise the issues:

1) My Logitech Harmony Hub will not connect to the 2.4ghz network, when the router is configured to run in 802.11n mode. The Harmony Hub is fully capable of 802.11n and was connecting to my previous router fine (BT Smart Hub 6), as well as the VM Hub 3 before that. If I run the Hub 4.0 2.4ghz network in mixed mode (802.11g/n) it will connect, but I do not wish to run in a legacy mode because I have no 'g' only devices on the network.

Similar issue here:
https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Networking-and-WiFi/Hub-4-Missing-Wireless-Network/m-p/4369393#...
(message 6)

2) The odd device has trouble connecting, especially at 5ghz. Specifically, I have a Linux based device which, when observing the logs seems to experience authentication timeouts when initially connecting. It will not complete the handshake with the router. This could be authentication related, or it could related to DHCP and not being able to obtain an address in time. If I drop the device back onto 2.4ghz it will be fine. To confirm, if I connect the device to another 5ghz network, eg. neighbours router (BT), or a mobile hotspot hosted on either my laptop or mobile - it connects every time on 5ghz. It is only when connecting to the Hub 4.0 I experience problems. Sometimes it will connect, but perhaps only 20% of the time. This process of elimination leads me to believe the router is the cause of the issue here.

Possible 'similar' issue (although this is DHCP related), resolved by replacing the hardware:
https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Networking-and-WiFi/Hub4-and-DHCP/td-p/4580574

3) Bug regarding Smart WiFi optimisation and the fact it resets any custom 2.4ghz SSID to default values when the router is rebooted - so long as WiFi optimisation is switched on. Turn off Smart WiFi optimisation and all is well. Reported to VM months ago, but no fix. Other threads on the forum confirm the same issue.

My post reporting the bug and supplying a workaround:
https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Networking-and-WiFi/Hub-4-0-reboot-bug-resets-custom-2-4ghz-SSI...

Another example:
https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Networking-and-WiFi/Hub-4-changing-SSID-s-back-to-default/td-p/...

Probably won't be fixed by replacing the hardware, but would be an interesting experiment.

4) A generic complaint is poor 2.4ghz performance in general (I have separated my SSID's to force as many devices onto 5ghz as possible). To clarify, my 2.4ghz sits on a non-overlapping channel which no-one else is using (channel 1), so interference is not a problem. 5ghz performance is pretty good to be fair. Range of the Hub 4.0 is also improved over previous ISP supplied devices.

Yes, I know many people on here will say 'the Hub 4.0 is a bug fest, put it in modem mode and get your own router' - but i'd like to at least explore swapping the hardware out just in case it solves some of these connectivity issues.

If not - indeed, I will have no choice but to pursue a 3rd party router and put the Hub 4.0 into modem only mode. I'm sure that will solve my issues.

Thanks!

[jbrennand]

They wont swap a Hub unless its "faulty" (by their criteria). If its delivering speeds fine on ethernet cable connections - then it will be an uphill struggle.

Your final sentence is the way to go I did that >20 years ago and never have issues.

[jpeg1]

You will find it hard to get a Hub replaced, particularly at the moment when they are in short supply. 

And if you do it is very likely that you will still have most or all of the same problems. 

So bite the bullet and get your own router, which be a quicker and better resolution. 

[Tudor]

“I know this because the DHCP table doesn't even flush and all devices will obtain the same address/lease even 'post reset'.”. I think you will find that a device, whose DHCP lease has nor expired, will use that same IP when the DHCP server is restarted, nothing to do with cached data not being reset.

I too have always used my own router and network equipment. I’ve missed out on a lot of problems!

[movisman]

Ah, I meant after a factory reset, not after the DHCP service is restarted after a reboot. If it was a true factory reset the DHCP scope and any associated leases should be cleared from the router entirely. Meaning that when a device reconnects and requests an IP from the router, it is likely to get a new address in the range.

However after a factory reset of the Hub 4.0, devices just get the same address because the router still keeps DHCP intact, and is handing out the same addresses as a result. If the router truly was wiped and reflashed when you reset it, this table would be cleared too, but it isn't. This means that the factory reset isn't actually a 'full one', as information like this is retained, when it should really be wiped out.

I take everyone's points about getting my own router, I have been looking into it and narrowing down things if I was to go down that route. ASUS is looking good. Only decision not to be made yet on this front is whether to go for a higher end AC router, or a lower end AX one (i cannot justify the cost of the higher end AX routers).

The irritating thing is, the previous router I was using to replace Plusnet's standard one - a BT Business Smart Hub 6 (which I got off eBay for £20), was excellent and gave me no issues. It's a shame the Hub 4.0 has so many problems. Prior to that I was with VM on a Hub 3.0, and while not great, it was probably better than this even with all those well documented Puma issues (i know the Hub 4.0 has Puma also!).

I will have a think and decide what to do. There are various other faults/issues with the hub, I am sure I can justify a replacement if I push hard enough to be honest. But you are right, it is quite possible that a replacement will not improve matters. I would even consider going back to a Hub 3 if needed - at least it's half the size of this gargantuan Hub 4.0! 🤣

[Paulina_Z]

Hi @movisman,

Welcome back to our Community Forum! Thank you for your post and I'm sorry to hear that you're having ongoing issues with your Hub 4!

I was able to locate your account and look into this issue further for you. However, I can see that there are no area issues that could be impacting your service, and there are no issues with your power levels. They are all showing as within spec with no issues.

I would advise you set up a BQM chart so we can monitor your connection further. This would help us see any connection issues you may be experiencing. 

Keep us updated on any other issues you may be noticing with your Hub 4. We're more than happy to help with this. 

Thanks!

[movisman]

Hi @Paulina_Z,

Thanks for replying to this thread.

I did mention in my original post that this issue is not related in any way to area issues, power levels, or overall broadband performance to the property:

From my first post:
"coax signal quality, speed etc, are all good and all sat within the correct thresholds. The issue is solely related to the hardware/software involving the Hub 4.0"

The issues are solely based around the Hub 4.0 hardware and/or software. One is a bug (the one I reported to VM a number of months ago regarding custom 2.4ghz SSID's being reset upon reboot), the others may or may not be solved with a replacement. It would be a case of try it and see.

None of the issues are causing an outage as such, however i'd like to explore the possibilities of trying another Hub 4.0, as a few posts with somewhat related issues to mine - some were actually solved after swapping the hardware.

There is a possibility that the issues will still exist after doing this, but without trying it, no-one knows. I'm not sure what stock levels there are regarding the Hub 4.0, certainly in the recent past there were shortages with the Humax branded 360 boxes.

I have been looking at the possibility of placing the Hub 4.0 into modem mode and investing in a separate router, which will likely solve all problems. But i'd like to get an answer from VM whether they would be willing to swap my current Hub 4.0 out for another first, then I can decide on the appropriate course of action.

Thanks!

[Corey_C]

Thanks for your reply and clarification, movisman,

Unfortunately, no, we wouldn't swap without first being able to identify a fault from our diagnostics. Apologies.

Thanks,

Corey C

[movisman]

Ah right, Unfortunately, your diagnostics are never going to be able to pick up software faults or firmware related issues. So essentially, unless connectivity is problematic in terms of signal, speed, etc, users are stuck with a buggy mess of a Hub, even if they are experiencing actual issues on the software/firmware side 😉 not sure I agree with that, but ok.

The bug I reported to VM about custom 2.4 SSID's renaming back to default after a reboot is over 6 months old now, and still no update from VM. I find that a shame especially after I went to all the trouble of reporting it to 'Hub 4.0 specific' technical support on the phone (who were able to verify the bug after I replicated it for them), as well as posting a workaround on the forum (eg. disable smart wifi optimisation). I'm not sure why it isn't in VM's interest to keep on top of updates for their supplied equipment.

The other issues i've documented above, i've think i've isolated them to the Hub in the last couple of days, because setting up a hotspot on either my laptop or phone, I have no issue with my problematic device. Looking at the logs, when I connect this device to the Hub 4.0 on 5ghz, often DHCP will time out, and sometimes the 4 way handshake will not complete for WPA2/AES authentication. If I assign a static IP to the device, and reduce security on the Hub to mixed WPA/WPA2 mode, the device will use TKIP for encryption and it will connect fine with a static address. However, none of this should be necessary. When connecting the same device to Laptop or Android hotspot, I can just use 5ghz, regular DHCP and WPA2/AES with no issue. It just connects, as it did on my last router. It's only connecting to the Hub 4.0 where there is a problem with that device. Also I find it odd that with the Hub 4.0, my Harmony Hub doesn't function unless I run 2.4ghz in mixed mode, whereas previously I was happily running 802.11n only. Again, odd quirks!

I can work around the issue, by forcing that device to use 2.4ghz only, and running the 2.4ghz network in mixed mode to satisfy the Harmony Hub.

Anyhow, I will probably investigate investing in my own router and dropping this Hub 4.0 into modem only mode. As others have said, it's likely to solve all problems and possibly even give me greater speed/range. Will have to take the plunge and experiment.

Thanks

[conman33158]

Save yourself some future headaches and as others have stated, go for your own router. I use 2 Asus routers set up on their AiMesh system and they are flawless, although I still have problems with the Hub 4 from time to time in modem mode as the connection coming in sometimes goes stale when up for long periods of time forcing a reboot. Other than that, going for the Asus routers was the best move I ever made, and compared to Virgin's mediocre equipment it was a must in this situation. I just went for the Wifi 6 routers as I'm on a 1 gig connection, if it weren't for that I'd have just went for a standard router.