Hub 3 tripping electrics

[mike_babb]

Hi,

Last night one of the rcd fuses on my panel kept tripping out.  if i reset it it would then trip out again about 5-10 minutes later.  After a process of elimination it turns out to be the Virgin Hub 3, if that is unplugged the electrics don't trip. Anyone have knowledge of this happening before?  I am not an IT expert, so go easy on me!

[mike_babb]

Hi Andrew, many thanks for taking the time to add your comments. 

I'm afraid I don't really know the difference between RCD or MCB, but I'll chuck in an image showing which trip has tripped. It's the one just to the right of the red one. 

I ran an extension reel to the router and from a different socket in the house and the same thing happened, so i think that eliminates the possibility of the fault being in the socket.  

Mike

 

[goslow]

In addition to advice from @Andrew-G, you have what is known as a 'split load' board. You have an RCD to the RHS of the main switch (on the LHS of the picture) and you have a second RCD just going out of shot on the RHS of the pic. The second RCD on the RHS will protect another bank of circuits.

The two RCDs protecting your electrical system cover two banks of circuits. A fault on any one of those circuits from an individual group can trigger a fault. Or a cumulative fault can cause a trip the more circuits are switched on if it takes the earth leakage current above the trip value.

Worth noting that on the LHS bank of circuits you seem to have some which are for outdoor supplies such as 'Drive sockets and lights' and 'Outbuilding'. These can be a source of tripping if water gets into the circuits during wet weather (through leaky light fittings, damaged seals on sockets etc.)

Some other things you could try (if feasible) would be to turn off the two circuits to 'Drive sockets and lights' and 'Outbuilding' then run the hub for a period of time and see if the tripping happens. If the hub circuit holds up then that might help in the diagnostics and point to one of the outside circuits.

Alternatively, if there is a socket circuit on the second bank of circuits (out of shot to the RHS of the photo) plug in your extension lead to one of those sockets and run the hub through the RHS RCD circuits. If the RHS RCD trips out with the hub power supply connected then that lends more weight to a problem with the hub power supply. You obviously need to make certain which sockets are protected by which particular RCD to ensure the test is useful/reliable.

[mike_babb]

Hi goslow, thanks for your advice. I'll cropped the image to reduce the size but I'll add one of the entire panel below.

Before I narrowed it down to the router i did isolate the garden room and front drive lights and sockets and it still tripped. Also, it only trips when the router is connected so I'm kind of thinking it has to be to do with the router. I could try plugging it in to the sockets covered on the right of the fuse panel to see if the right hand rcd trips. I wasn't aware that there are two that do the same job for different circuits 👍.

 

[Tudor]

At a guess I would say all your sockets are on the left hand RCD and probably all your lights are on the right hand RCD.

For information;

RCD - Residual Current Detector 

MCB - Miniature Circuit Breaker

[goslow]

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@mike_babb wrote:

Hi goslow, thanks for your advice. I'll cropped the image to reduce the size but I'll add one of the entire panel below.

<snip> 

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By way of a test, identify a convenient socket which is on the RHS 'Sockets' circuit via the B20 MCB. Plug in your extension lead there and run the hub's power supply through that socket circuit for a time. If the RHS RCD trips out while you have the hub running in that way, that lends weight to the idea that the hub power supply, or its cable, is faulty.

When the hub power supply is unplugged from the wall socket (no power connected) have a look at the mains lead which the hub power supply uses. Check for any bends, kinks, cuts, crushing or damage to the power cable or its mains plug.

In a split load board like that, it would normally be wired so that you have (say) ground floor lights via one RCD and first floor lights on the other. Ground floor sockets via one RCD and first floor sockets on the other. That way, if one RCD trips you don't lose power/light in the whole house.

[ALF28]

HUB 3 - power

The hub 3 power supply is 240v 0.5 amps. The device has no earth as it is double insulated so it should not normally trip an RCD trip  device or an MCB  breaker device in a 240v power supply board.

There is power surge on switch on that lasts for a few seconds as the device has a transformer.

The plug should have a fuse of 2 or 3 amps normally in the plug.

If the hub was fauly, it would get hot and may cease working and red light on. The hub should not be constricted and needs and air space around it to keep cool, not in a cofined area as shown. I have my hub on a small stool next to the socket.

The other possibilities are "overloading" of the 240v ring main which may trip the  breaker, incorrect wiring, insualtion of cabling faulty,  wiring of sockets wrong etc. It probably needs the hub and power supply checked with a pat tester and perhaps the house wiring sytem checked.

Try out a different socket or extension lead to see if the fault is inside the socket you are using, and disconnect all other plugs in the house and see if it still trips with just the hub connected, there could be other fauly gear such as kettle or toaster or wiring adding to the problem.

May need an electrican to sort the problem or VM technician to check the hub/power supply which has to be the correct model or they can overheat.

alf28

[Tudor]

I know this does not concern the OP, but some further information for everyone. If you are having your house rewired it’s worth considering the installation of RCBOs instead of 2 x RCD and MCBs. An RCBO stands for 'Residual Current Breaker with Over-Current' basically it’s a RCD combined with a MCB in one package. It’s advantage over the other method is that is fully protects each individual circuit, so it becomes extremely easy in finding out which circuit is being tripped. Very useful is you have outside circuits and certainly would help the OP.

[Andrew-G]

In this case, the description and photos indicate that the breaker that's tripping is the main RCD.  In theory that means either the RCD is faulty or there's an earth fault on the circuits covered, but electricians say that an RCD can also trip for over current or short circuit conditions, which unfortunately leaves all options open.

Unless trialling the hub on the circuits protected by the other RCD points conclusively to the hub, then I'd suggest you start thinking about getting an electrician out, which you'll be lucky to see change from a hundred quid for, and in some parts of the country double that.  RCDs can be a pain when they keep tripping, on the other hand they're the single biggest advance in electrical safety in the past hundred years, so always an idea to make sure that everything is working properly.

[Tudor]

“RCDs can be a pain when they keep tripping, on the other hand they're the single biggest advance in electrical safety in the past hundred years, so always an idea to make sure that everything is working properly” I agree totally with both points, but as I explained the first point can be alleviated by using RCBOs.

[mike_babb]

Again, all your input is greatly appreciated. I have a minor update.  It only trips out when the white coax cable is connected to the hub3. Would that indicate a possible issue in the junction box on the outside of the house or even further up the chain in the street somewhere? The weather has been shocking since it started tripping out so maybe water has got into something sensitive?